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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    That’s not precisely what he said, though, is it?

    In general, what he wrote has largely come to pass.
     
    #75661
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  2. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    It has.
    He did suggest NATO wasn't militarily strong enough to protect all it's frontiers.
    I would suggest that it very much is.

    The rest is pretty accurate.
     
    #75662
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  3. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    He suggested NATO should have been wound up. Do you honestly think, Ubes, that Putin, a sociopath who sends death squads around the world to murder his adversaries, would not just have marched into, at least, the old Soviet countries if there had been no opposing force? It is highly arguable that one reason he gambled on the Ukraine invasion was because Biden was so weak over the Afghanistan withdrawal.
     
    #75663
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  4. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    It's no secret how much I hate Johnson. But kudos to him for going to Kyiv right now. That's proper leadership.
     
    #75664
  5. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    France. Poll shows 56% of 18-24 year old voters will vote for Far Right candidate Marine Le Pen.

    Wow.
     
    #75665
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  6. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    It was made clear by number 10 that he was 'itching' to get out there. Perhaps I'm being overly cynical, but I think he saw it as a massive photo opportunity. He thinks he's Churchill, after all.
     
    #75666
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  7. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.
    Can't stand Boris, but he has been pretty much faultless during this murderous invasion.
    The UK too have been superb in their support for Ukraine.

    However, our inability to get the Ukranian refugees housed is a ****ing disgrace.
     
    #75667
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  8. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Reading the first half of your post I was thinking, "yeah, except the refugees." Just ridiculous we can't sort that as our response has been spot on otherwise.
     
    #75668
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2022
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  9. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    One can't possibly prove his intentions one way or the other. Photo opportunity or not, I bet it's a huge positive for the people of Ukraine and that's what counts for me. (And credit to von der Leyen for the same.)
     
    #75669
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  10. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think about anything honestly, Goldie.

    What I cannot say for sure is whether there would have been a Russian leader like Putin had NATO not acted in the way that it has. Had NATO perhaps granted Russia membership (in whatever capacity) back in the day of Gorbachev and Yeltsin then maybe we’d all have been great mates by now, but instead the Yanks determined to continue their sniffy superiority just when there was an opportunity to do something else.

    But, then again, I don’t know enough about the minute detail on this one.
     
    #75670

  11. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    What angered the hardliners in Russia at the time of Gorbachev and Yeltsin was that so much of the Soviet Union wanted to leave the Bloc and gain their independence. Which they did and made a great success of it. Putin wants to turn back the clock.
     
    #75671
  12. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    If you're interested, and you probably aren't, the four part documentary on BBC4 about Putin that's on at the moment makes interesting viewing....and they seem to have a similar viewpoint. Made in 2012, prior to Crimean intervention, it goes a long way to showing how Putin wanted to join the west in it's fight against Jihadists as he was having his own issues with the Chechens, but the US wanted total control and started to prickle his feathers - leading to where we are today...
     
    #75672
  13. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    I believe the Ruskies were OK with their former states being independent, but their definition of independent involved Russia continuing to wield influence and/or their former territory remaining something of a client state. The fact that the Yanks then started working in their own interests (as they always do) within these states didn’t much help the journey to where we are now. Nothing, however, excuses the military action that Putin has taken.
     
    #75673
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  14. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    Why “probably aren’t”?
     
    #75674
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  15. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    I'm absolutely sure that everything bad that happens in the world today is the fault of "the Yanks"/"the West"/Ourselves etc.
    I wake up every single day feeling thoroughly guilty for being born here.





    Sarcasm intended.
     
    #75675
  16. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    Nice sarcasm, Col. Who said those things you’re being sarcastic about?
     
    #75676
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  17. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    But the Baltic States, Poland, Romania, E Germany etc didn't leave the Soviet Union because the US convinced them to do so.
     
    #75677
  18. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    Who suggested that they did?
     
    #75678
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  19. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    You said the Yanks started acting in their own interests in those states
     
    #75679
  20. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    Just a wee bit of sarcasm - seems it's infectious around here
     
    #75680
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