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Off Topic Covid 19 restrictions have done one

Discussion in 'Hull City' started by dennisboothstash, Oct 29, 2020.

  1. Edelman

    Edelman Well-Known Member

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    I found a really nice looking hotel in Tenerife on the TUI website .
    I thought I'd look at the reviews before I booked .
    3,500 reviews which is a good amount I'd say .
    3,498 said it was really good and 2 said it was ****e .
    I didn't bother booking I'm F****" if I'm going to that sh.thole hotel .
     
    #8141
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  2. SW3 Chelsea Tiger

    SW3 Chelsea Tiger Well-Known Member

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    Covid deaths impossible to calculate as authorities used 14 different ways to record them
    Oxford University study reveals even the ONS did not have a clear definition for fatalities, leaving ‘everyone seriously confused’

    We found some organisations coded Covid deaths even in the absence of positive Covid tests. Some nursing homes had allocated causality to Covid-19 not on the basis of tests but when those deaths occurred, usually in the Spring of 2020. Nursing homes decide themselves what was the cause.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ible-calculate-authorities-used-14-different/
     
    #8142
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2022
    Newlandcasual2 likes this.
  3. Newlandcasual2

    Newlandcasual2 Well-Known Member

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    Just another conspiracy theory....
     
    #8143
  4. SW3 Chelsea Tiger

    SW3 Chelsea Tiger Well-Known Member

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    Yup - And I was called a nut job on this thread for questioning the data!!!
     
    #8144
  5. originallambrettaman

    originallambrettaman Mod Moderator
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    It's paywall article, so I've no idea what it says, but I'm confused by the headline. What difference does it make who recorded what in a care home, surely the ONS data on COVID being cause of death (as recorded on the death certificate) are the ones that matter and either it was or it wasn't?
     
    #8145
  6. SW3 Chelsea Tiger

    SW3 Chelsea Tiger Well-Known Member

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    The cause of death is exactly what they are challenging. For instance some where labelled a covid death without a positive test or without seeing a Dr before the death

    Copied the article below.

    The number of people who have died from Covid in Britain during the pandemic is impossible to determine because of the inconsistent definitions of what is meant by a coronavirus death, researchers have concluded.

    Experts from Oxford University discovered that public health and statistics organisations across the UK are operating under 14 different definitions to classify a death from Covid.

    Freedom of Information (FOI) requests, collated for a new report published on Saturday, show that many people who died in the first wave never tested positive for the virus, particularly older people who died in care homes.

    Instead, their deaths were registered as Covid simply based on a statement of the care home provider, and because coronavirus was rife at the time.

    In some care homes, more than half of the Covid deaths were registered in people without pre-existing conditions, which the report authors said was “implausible” for people who needed residential care.


    The authors also point out that it is unlikely that a Covid infection on its own could cause death in the absence of contributing factors, such as other illness, or the infection leading to a more deadly condition such as pneumonia.

    The report also found that in some trusts, up to 95 per cent of Covid deaths were in people with Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) orders.

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    A care home resident after receiving the coronavirus vaccine at Andrew Cohen House in Birmingham. The study found many people who died when the pandemic began in 2020 never tested positive for the virus CREDIT: Jacob King/PA
    ‘Ravages of human stupidity’
    The team said the confusion meant they were unable to separate deaths caused by Covid from those triggered by the pandemic response, and called for a proportion of deaths to be verified by post-mortem in future pandemics to determine the true reason.

    Dr Tom Jefferson, of the Centre for Evidence Based Medicine (CEBM) at Oxford University, said: “Every night we were given this diet of cases, admissions and deaths. But we found that even the ONS doesn’t have a standard definition for deaths. We found 14 different ways to express the cause of death.

    “There are a number of death certificates where Covid-19 is the only cause of death, and that is not possible. It has to be something like Covid-19 induced pneumonia, if it goes to the kidneys and you get kidney failure.

    “We found some organisations coded Covid deaths even in the absence of positive Covid tests. Some nursing homes had allocated causality to Covid-19 not on the basis of tests but when those deaths occurred, usually in the Spring of 2020. Nursing homes decide themselves what was the cause.

    “All of this means that we don’t really know who has died of Covid, or how severe it is, and this continues to this day. Separating the ravages of the virus from the ravages of human stupidity is not possible.”

    At organisations across Britain, Covid deaths were variously defined as: Due to Covid, Covid as an underlying cause, Covid as an underlying main cause, Covid as a direct cause, death involving Covid, died within 28 days of a Covid test, died within 60 days of a Covid test, Covid mentioned on the death certificate, Covid as sole cause, Covid as only cause, Covid as immediate cause, Covid based on statement of the care home provider and Covid contributing to death.

    An FOI response from North Tees and Hartlepool NHS Foundation Trust in March 2021 said it was impossible to determine the true cause of death among those listed as solely dying of Covid because no post-mortems had taken place.

    “The trust does not undertake post mortems and therefore we are unable to say whether they had underlying, undiagnosed co-morbidities which contributed to their death,” a spokesman said.

    Increase in use of DNRs
    The report authors also said there should be further investigation into the large numbers of people dying after the imposition of DNRs.

    At London North West University, by December 2020 there had been 623 Covid deaths of which 555 (89 per cent) were subject to DNRs.

    At King’s College Hospital NHS Foundation Trust, 85 per cent of Covid deaths had a DNR by November 2020. At Barts Health NHS Trust, it was lower at 32 per cent.

    A recent report by Oxford and Durham Universities showed that in the first wave of Covid in the spring of 2020 there had been a 30 per cent increase in the use of DNRs, with a fifth of patients not consulted about the decision.

    “This requires further investigation,” said Prof Carl Heneghan, Director of the CEBM at Oxford. “Were these orders already in place as may be the case with terminal disease or were they instigated during admission?

    “These are vital questions requiring answering to determine the impact of the virus particularly in the most vulnerable and likely to die.”

    ‘We were in panic mode’
    The UK Statistics watchdog has said that excess deaths give the closest indication, but researchers said it was impossible to separate deaths from Covid and those caused by the pandemic response.

    “It’s very hard to understand who is dying of Covid and who is dying from the measures put in place to tackle the virus,” added Prof Henghan.

    “For example, if you’re elderly and have dementia and are left alone, you’ll be dead in two to three days. We were in panic mode.

    “When you look across the devolved nations there are real problems. There are subtle variations in how the deaths were recorded, and these different interpretations have left everyone seriously confused.”

    Without a true death count, researchers say it is impossible to calculate the real fatality rate of Covid or compare Britain to other countries.
     
    #8146
  7. springtiger

    springtiger Well-Known Member

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    Certainly made it a lottery comparing country to country and ‘’how well they’ve done’ or badly . We will disregards China 1.4billion people only 5 k deaths ! Don’t make me laugh!!
     
    #8147
    DMD and SW3 Chelsea Tiger like this.
  8. originallambrettaman

    originallambrettaman Mod Moderator
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    Thanks for posting it in full, it does seem very chaotic.
     
    #8148
  9. Charlie1

    Charlie1 Well-Known Member

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    Died from Covid and with Covid are two very different things. On the day the govt announced the lockdown my department already had drawn up a working plan. İt had five stages to the it. We went into stage five on day one. That meant people will lose limbs and people will die. İ spent the first three months and didn't see my colleagues at all. İ spent the first six months listening to patients being told we need to bring you in but if we bring you in and you get Covid you will die so consider signing this DNR. I've spent the last 20+ years diagnosing disease and giving my patients hope. Wiped out by two years of Covid. İt has taken it's toll on the NHS staff.
     
    #8149
  10. John Ex Aberdeen now E.R.

    John Ex Aberdeen now E.R. Well-Known Member

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    Finally got a negative test result can start traveling back to Vietnam tomorrow.
     
    #8150

  11. SW3 Chelsea Tiger

    SW3 Chelsea Tiger Well-Known Member

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    More interesting analysis
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...th-rate-compared-rest-world-isnot-bad-feared/


    Britain's Covid pandemic death rate is much better than previously thought compared with the rest of the world, a Lancet study has shown.

    Research by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation in the US calculated the excess death rates for 191 countries and territories and found that the UK is now roughly in the middle at 102.

    Previously, countries have been judged by death rates alone, which would place Britain at 168 – the 24th worst in the world. Critics of the Government's pandemic response have often cited this figure as justification for calling for tougher Covid restrictions.

    But Britain was found to have an excess death rate of 126.8 per 100,000, very close to France – which had 124.4 per 100,000 – and Germany, with 120.5 per 100,000.

    Sweden, which did not lock down, was found to have one of the best excess death rates in Europe, with 91.2 per 100,000. Only Finland, Luxembourg and Iceland fared better.

    The UK excess death rate is close to the average global excess death rate of 120 per 100,000.

    Many experts believe excess deaths are a better indicator of the true scale of the pandemic because they discount people who would have died anyway during the period and level the playing field, exposing countries that have under-reported deaths.

    Last week, Ed Humpherson, the director general of the the Office for Statistics Regulation, told MPs on the health and science select committee that he would advise using excess deaths as the more accurate figure.

    Dr Sarah Scobie, the deputy director of research at the Nuffield Trust, said: "I think, if I was wanting to make a comparison internationally, I would be inclined to look at excess deaths as as the better measure because that would deal with the fact that, in different countries, there may be differences in in how in how Covid has been recorded, and particularly at the early stages of the pandemic."

    The Lancet study found many countries have been under-reporting deaths and estimated that the true death toll of Covid globally is likely to be three times the official figure – 18.2 million compared to 5.9 million up to Dec 31, 2021.

    In South Asia, excess deaths were found to be 9.5 times higher than reported deaths, and in sub-Saharan Africa it was 14.2 times higher.

    Researchers said the large differences between excess deaths and official records may be a result of under-diagnosis due to lack of testing and problems with reporting death data.

    At the country level, the highest number of estimated excess deaths occurred in India (4.1 million), the US (1.1 million), Russia (1.1 million), Mexico (798,000), Brazil (792,000), Indonesia (736,000) and Pakistan (664,000).

    These countries may have accounted for more than half of global excess deaths caused by the Covid pandemic over the 24-month period.

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    Volunteers dig a grave for a Covid victim in Pune, India, during the first wave of the pandemic CREDIT: INDRANIL MUKHERJEE/AFP via Getty Images
    However, some nations were estimated to have had fewer deaths than expected based on mortality trends in prior years, including Iceland, with 48 fewer deaths per 100,000, Australia, 38 fewer deaths per 100,000, and Singapore, 16 fewer deaths per 100,000.

    The report authors pointed out that some of the excess deaths were not caused by Covid but by indirect causes brought on by the pandemic such as suicide, lack of access to healthcare and economic impacts.

    Dr Haidong Wang, of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation in the USA and the lead author, said: "Understanding the true death toll from the pandemic is vital for effective public health decision-making.

    "Studies from several countries including Sweden and the Netherlands suggest Covid-19 was the direct cause of most excess deaths, but we currently don't have enough evidence for most locations.

    "Further research will help to reveal how many deaths were caused directly by Covid-19 and how many occurred as an indirect result of the pandemic."

    The latest data show that the infection fatality rate for Covid is now lower than for influenza. While 35 in 100,000 omicron infections result in death, 40 people in 100,000 will die from a flu infection
     
    #8151
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  12. TwoWrights

    TwoWrights Well-Known Member

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    Going back to free those GI POW's, John?! :emoticon-0100-smile
     
    #8152
  13. Ron Burguvdy

    Ron Burguvdy Well-Known Member

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  14. Idi Amin

    Idi Amin Well-Known Member

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    We still on about this...

    I have moved on to outrage on petrol and ukraine!

    Get with the programme losers!
     
    #8154
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2022
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  15. John Ex Aberdeen now E.R.

    John Ex Aberdeen now E.R. Well-Known Member

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    Strangely enough, there are only 3 westerners where I am, 2 Americans and me, one of which, not me, fought here in the war and lost a leg when he went back home in a motorbike accident, which he says was a result of the war. He was so freaked out by it, that he just went on the wild side for a time.

    Though he liked the country and after a number of years came back and married a Vietnamese girl. So not a POW, but has some horrible tales to tell.
     
    #8155
  16. Plum

    Plum Well-Known Member

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    Is there much French spoken in Vietnam these days?
     
    #8156
  17. DMD

    DMD Eh?
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    It's more shocking that people are only just accepting the issues around the data, when people have been accused of being conspiracy theorists for pointing out the potential flaws from very early on, as they were pretty obvious to anyone that looked beyond the headlines.

    Hopefully, those people will have learned from the experience, and look in more detail and apply critical thinking for future data issues rather than thinking they are following the science and experts.

    Too often, the science at the base does not support the final decisions, as they've been mauled through a number of processes and/or not applied to the purpose of the original study.
     
    #8157
  18. John Ex Aberdeen now E.R.

    John Ex Aberdeen now E.R. Well-Known Member

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    Virtually nothing, some of the older people speak a bit, but everyone wants to learn English these days. The French colonial days are not well-liked.

    EDIT: One thing the French have left behind is the art of making French Baguettes, I always enjoy my lunchtime sandwich here.
     
    #8158
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  19. BlackAndAmberGambler

    BlackAndAmberGambler Well-Known Member

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    Got Covid for the 3rd time this week. Had all the jabs and my flu jab, feeling like ****.

    I'm not even going to seek any sympathy because there's so many people suffering all sorts of horrors in this twisted world that a bit of flu is **** all.
     
    #8159
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  20. look_back_in_amber

    look_back_in_amber Well-Known Member

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    Well said Dutch, however there are sadly many that haven’t and won’t learn from the experience.
     
    #8160

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