What on earth are you talking about. Some things that Denmark mandated - The wearing of masks in public spaces. - Testing and/or mandatory quarantine (depends on point of origin) of unvaccinated travelers entering the country: https://en.coronasmitte.dk/travel-rules/new-mandatory-testing-and-isolation-requirements - Use of COVID 'passports' for bars, restaurants and many other public spaces: https://www.covidpasscertificate.com/coronapas-denmark-has-covid-passport/ - Further general restrictions, such a limiting business hours and the outright closure of some sectors.
This is a lovely moving of the goalposts, given that at no time did I suggest mandatory vaccines. Beyond that, what Denmark created was a series of measures that would sharply inconvenience the unvaccinated, leading to a higher percentage of the population getting vaccinated, sufficiently blunting the severity of the disease to allow reopening without swamping their health care system. Denmark has the second-highest percentage of vaccinated people in Europe; Denmark is the first country able to reopen. This is not coincidental. Y'know, exactly what I've been suggesting every step of the way for the past year now. Not because I'm an epidemiologist, because I most definitely am not, but because I've listened to all the science-knowers, and not a guy whose former career interviewing guys who had just gotten their sixth concussion has somehow imbued him with cultural standing among certain demographics. The pandemic continues on in no small part because of vaccine hesitancy caused by the likes of Rogan.
Not at all, those that didn't accept the vaccines have had their access restricted. Have a look on the Euronews site I linked to see what entry requirements for UK citizens are.
Joe Rogan is not advocating vaccine hesitation. Joe Rogan is not popular because he is always correct. He has millions of listeners because he is open-minded, is interested in new ideas & treats his audience with respect. Try listening to the podcasts before you argue with people who basically agree with you. My whole point here is that you are all dismissing him without the basic facts. Which you are still doing. He should be allowed a platform. People that do not want the vaccine should not be mandated to take the vaccine.
He's popular because he leaves his audience with the impression that they are free-thinking renegades in a world of sheep, and everyone loves a good ego massage. And then, when the audience believes that they are free-thinking renegades, he introduces them to other free-thinking renegades. Like Tim Pool, the guy who regularly hosts the leading promoter of the Pizzagate conspiracy theory in Jack Posobiec (who also has well-established ties to white supremacists). Note what happens when Rogan is challenged by someone with actual data. He's proven wrong in real-time, and his response is..."I don't think it's true". Even after they look it up and he's operating under faulty preconceptions, he still falls back on his priors.
He has a platform and the scrutiny that goes with it, his guests and his own statements haven't withstood that.
There's so much presumption about what other people think going on in this thread. Os, you're so busy somehow shifting goalposts in an attempt to be right (and not to be wrong, which is weird. Being wrong about things is actually pretty cool, cos you learn), that you've not noticed that your shoelaces are tied together and you're tripping up the whole time.
I’m not trying to be right at all. I don’t really care to change your opinions, I just want to try and express mine because so many people have bought into the nonsense agenda around covid. I haven’t changed my views at all since I started posting on here. If the media had flashed up in big red letters every time there was a flu death, you’d all be advocating for covid passes and vaccine mandates for that too. So many people are so easily manipulated by fear porn. The simple reality is that Covid is an illness which is a bit worse than flu and for the majority not too bad. We have taken adequate precautions and it’s time to get back to normal as quickly as we can. Some of the precautions in hindsight were overkill, but I respect the fact they had to err on the side of caution from the start. We know now a lot more about the illness. We know it doesn’t warrant lockdowns or forcing people to be injected against their will. People shouldn’t lose their jobs because of this. Obviously sensible precautions around the old or vulnerable need to stay.
What you continually fail to realise is that protecting the old or vulnerable isn’t a binary thing, it means protecting everyone, because if there is one person walking around who can infect the old or vulnerable, then they are subject to being infected. But never mind, eh, they’re old. Not only that, but the long-term effects of Long Covid in the younger population are only just beginning to be understood. It may not affect you, so I don’t expect you to give a ****, but studies (that’s like actual science) have shown lifelong changes to the immune system from which there is no foreseeable recovery. But then I’m obviously brainwashed by all the left wing actual evidence that’s been lined up in front of my ****ing eyes for nearly two years, so feel free to gaslight me.
“If the media had flashed up in big red letters every time there was a flu death, you’d all be advocating for covid passes and vaccine mandates for that too.” So back to the media again. Is it left wing or right wing today, Os? Or is it the government? I get confused with your various points of murkiness. Again, huge assumption. You’d all be advocating for Covid passed and vaccine mandates? Who is “you all”? Does that include me? Because I’ve never advocated for either, and certainly not on here. You’re so convinced people are disagreeing with all of your stance. People aren’t. Just the bits where you’re talking such badly thought out nonsense, it’s like a bullshit bazooka with bollocks for ammo. And you don’t even know what you’re shooting at.
If 'the media' put out a blast every time there was a flu death over the past two years, you'd be looking at a report on average about every 21 minutes in the US. if 'the media' put out a blast every time there was a COVID death in that span, the interval would be a fair bit less of a minute. Maybe they should do this, because it might result in people like you understanding the difference between a somewhat-big number and a really big one.
I'll chip in with this ..... As I'm writing this 5,680,741 people worldwide have died because of Covid 19. https://covid19.who.int/ Anyone who believes Covid 19 is 'a bit worse than flu' is a ****ing imbecile. I have had Covid 19 twice and am struggling with what is known as Long Covid and my lungs are wrecked. I know a few people who are a hell of a lot worse off than me and yes, some got over it pretty easily. I don't give a flying **** what Joe Rogan thinks, but I will admit that having watched some of his podcasts when I had nothing better to do, I did find some of them interesting. Michael Osterholm, Abby Martin, Paul Stemmens and a few others have been interesting but there have also been some fruit bats on his shows. Covid is real and it can, and has, killed many people so even if it is out of a respect for all those who died of something that you don't personally consider to be all that serious, give it a ****ing rest Os.
This is a coronavirus thread, people are allowed an opinion, yours is yours, Osvaldoramas are his, mine are mine etc. You can't shut people down just because you disagree, if that's what you want, shut down the whole Not606, it's a place for discussion, should Ralph go(no), how many games do you give Ralph(all of them, the guy is one of the best and we are lucky to have him), who should we sign, who should we sell. Unless you completely ban all talk of covid and close that thread, and punish people for mentioning it on other threads, then things are gonna get said. It's a vastly confusing time for all of us, none of us( apologies if wrong) are experts in any relative fields, we all get out news and information from somewhere and we all have to make a decision on whether that is worthy of believing or not. I fully shat myself at the beginning, being roped into helping as a keyworker even though my job is not crucial, not having any PPE at that point and only being shown where supplies of masks and hand gel were after a week of lockdowns. Being told 2m rule must be observed but then finding it impossible to observe with colleagues and customers. Going home, immediately stripping off my clothes and showering while my partner put the clothes in the wash! Kids being off school, us not having a clue about how beat to educate them, soon realising that they know way more than us on certain subjects! It's been tough, but I started to suss things out, I started to see the bigger picture. Cummings going to Barnard castle, PMs 80 year old dad breaking rules, Hancock snogging someone who wasn't his wife, all the ****ing parties Boris and co attended, while we couldn't see anyone, while we couldn't attend funerals properly if at all, while cancer patients waited and waited and waited, while mental health issues grew and grew, I've seen it with my own eyes. Families not seeing each other as much anymore, colleagues in an office being a thing of the past. Businesses going under, high streets are not the same as they once were and they were already struggling. Knowing all the important people in power have been so careless with all the rules, just hammers home how little this virus will affect the majority of us. Lockdowns in US and Europe reduced Covid mortality by just 0.2% on average. Yet they are coming for our children, targeting them to get the vaccines, a vaccine that will more than likely affect you in some way but will not kill you. How about giving us a choice to wear masks if we want to, to be scared and stay away from venues, shops, restaurants etc, to give us the choice to get the vaccine, no mandates for anyone. People not getting the vaccine have been labelled irresponsible and selfish, people have been calling out for the unvaccinated to get punished, to lose certain rights. Vilifying people for standing up for their beliefs is wrong on so many levels and I will never be a part of that regardless of vaccination status of me or you. The government have not cared 1 bit about us plebs, the news channels, papers as always use such language as to create fear, there's a reason they use words like tornado, typhoon, tsunami when describing situations. They have concentrated so much on the negative things, deaths, cases etc, but don't put as much effort into holding the government to account. There is a guy called Peter Stefanovic who has created videos of Boris lying on a weekly basis. His main video has now been watched 44 million times yet the BBC and others have not even mentioned it, have given it no coverage at all, why is this? Put it on, talk about it, hold them to account! I once saw a clip where it was mentioned in parliament and the BBC edited the mention out of their highlights, WTAF! So Joe Rogan and others like him get things wrong and have some guests on that maybe aren't the best...but I would rather have the option of seeing these things if I wanted so I can then make an informed decision about things than the BBC who deliberately hold things back. This board should never be anything like the BBC(ignoring the fact it's a rip off of the old 606 pages on the BBC). There should always be room for debate, for people to say their piece, for people to counter that and for people to agree to disagree. People can always change their opinions too, as I've seen people shot down many a time on here for having an opinion about a player or manager that is different to the opinion they gave 6 months before. People can change their minds, that's what happens, things evolve, it wasn't that long a go many on here thought JWP wasn't all that, now I'm sure most would agree he's 1st name on the teamsheet. So when Rogan says something and then contradicts this a number of months later, that is just how life works, things evolve, your mind sees different aspects and then before you know it your contradicting your former self. Let's have the debate, let's listen to others, let's respect each other, let's open up, people are scared, people are fragile, if you can't handle certain things, move along, come back when you are stronger. Life can be great again for all of us, I mean we are Saints fans after all and as sure as the sun will rise, Southampton FC will have more great times, creating more great memories.
I agree, Webs. And a debate, as far as I’m concerned, is what we’re having. I certainly have no actual issue with Os, or (funnily enough) with some of what he’s saying. The bit that bugs me to the point where I wonder why I bother, is that he doesn’t seem willing to take on new information to inform his position. But you know what, that’s fine too. Up to him (or whoever). But it will mean that after a while people either get frustrated trying to get the point across, or they just drop it.
There's some debate about these numbers...the study was conducted by two economists and a political studies advisor, rather than epidemiologists, and contrasts fairly sharply with the estimates produced by epidemiologists. It's a meta-analysis, and like any meta-analysis, what studies they choose to include and exclude will have a pretty major impact on the end findings. As an example, per the study itself: they excluded any studies that compared numbers before, during and after lockdowns within a country, because they decided those numbers could speak to effects other than the lockdown (seasonal rises/falls in cases, etc). That's a really big choice, because one would think that looking at those numbers might inform whether the lockdown was doing anything. They also excluded any studies that compared the effect of lockdowns early in the pandemic to later ones, because...reasons? Per the paper, they began with 18,590 studies, eliminated 18,556 of those, and drew their conclusions from the remaining 34. You can kinda see how what data one chooses to deem relevant can potentially inform the conclusion. Doesn't help when it gets referred to as "an enormous meta-analysis of 18,590 studies!" thereafter, either. Here's the actual paper: https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/f...ffects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf Speaking of 'the 'media', there's an issue in that: people assume from the articles written about this, given that a couple of the authors work at Johns Hopkins, they are medical professionals. They're economists! Johns Hopkins isn't just a giant research hospital! Edit: and just for transparency, the economists in question are Steve Henke (a contributor to the conservative publication National Review Online, scholar at the conservative/libertarian Cato Institute) and Jonas Herby (scholar at the extremely conservative CEPOS think tank).
Oh wow. New information that I wasn’t previously aware of, that causes me to revise a previously held opinion, rather than double-down on a wrong one. Thanks Schad, it’s great to actually learn this stuff. Who knew?
