Energumene or Shishkin?

Must admit I thought Energumene would win but delighted Shiskin did that. A great race: more please.

 

Just had another look back at the race and I think it went as straight forward for all involved as they had planned. Credit to the front two jockeys.

A question I would like to put to the wise members of 606 is that is there any way these two meet again and Energumene could possibly reverse the result? How, why, where, what and when. Answers on a postcard as my best friend Sir Barnabus Chuckle would say.

 

Absolutely wonderful initial write up on this thread.
It was indeed a great morning to be studying form with some great racing in the build up to todays classic. I had expected Shishkin to win today but I certainly would not be as confident now for the Cheltenham clash as it a lot closer than I’d imagined. If E can string them out further on March 16th, todays victor may not catch on the hill.
I have tickets for Tuesday and Thursday, I may miss the 2nd best race of the year.
We witnessed the best one today.

 

Missed it live as the missus and the son, clearly in collusion, thought yesterday afternoon was best spent doing something together as a family. Apparently admiring 2 champion horses going hell for leather over 2 miles didn’t pass muster. Caught up with it last night. Brilliant race and the rematch in March will be something to savour. And I was clearly robbed of a cheltenham bumper winner in 2019.

 

Hard to see a reversal given Shishkin’s bad error and proven form round Cheltenham. However Energumene wasn’t foot perfect in the jumping department. He’ll have to wing every fence. I hope he does.

 

On the face of it, you’d expect Shiskin to confirm the form at Cheltenham.
Perhaps Energumene can try and set an even stronger pace and/or try and get away down the last hill- and maybe hope Shiskin blunders in the chase.
He certainly has to try to somehow get Shiskin out of his comfort zone- which he didn’t quite manage yesterday.
It’s always going to miff an owner to have a 180 rated horse and then realise there’s one better. Remember how Fulke Walwyn felt when Arkle dethroned Mill House!
Nevertheless, Energumene’s fine effort needs no excuses nor justification.
Doubtless he’ll try again. That’s what racing’s all about!




.

 

Loved the race, absolute spectacle and great to see. However could it be that Shishkin didn’t need to improve to win the race and it was actually a performance under his top level?

I thought he traveled well but his fencing wasn’t as electric as it has been. The fact he nibbles the turf and that First Flow also managed to get upsides him at times makes me believe that he wasn’t at his optimal.

He took a bit of time to pick up too, so could it be that he didn’t perform to the very highest level of form?

Energumene on the other hand looked to run his best race, and was still beaten. I don’t see how he reverses form at Cheltenham where I think he will struggle to find the same rhythm and the hill should play into the stamina of Shishkin.

fascinating for the festival. The first two days look to have epics set out for them!

 

Just to follow on from the comments above, i was at Haydock on Saturday so watched it in the confines of the bar, and the general feel to it was just an exceptional race that had the whole of Haydock Park buzzing after the race had finished. I did manage to watch it again when i got home and just thought Energumene travelled well for most parts of the race and that Shiskin was a bit stop start, nodded on landing on down the back and had Nico pushing hard come the turn in to the final straight.

But that's the beauty of this race, we wished they went at each other, we hoped for a close finish and the whole race had drama through it from start to finish. One for the ages as we would say, lets hope the re-match lives up to this one wherever that may be...

 

Shishkin's new perch is 177.

Here's a question for the membership. What odd's would you quote re Shishkin and Energumene clashing in the Champion Chase, at Cheltenham, in March??? I'd, right now, go 4/7.

The obstacles being the fragility of the breed, one set of connections seeking an alternative target, old girl Mother Nature cruelly intervening or COVID having another severe attack.

 

177 is ridiculous. Just because you win a race it doesn’t mean you are improving from previous runs. The handicapper and “professionals” seem to forget/not understand this.

 

Agree, there's very little corroborating evidence to believe both horses ran better than they'd ever done before on Saturday. Enerrgumene was given a performance rating by the BHA of 175. As it was his first race in the good old GB it was the first time he'd been given a BHA rating of any sort. He was generally rated (though not by the BHA) at about 170, with Shishkin a little higher. Shishkin's has been pushed up 6lbs after Saturday.
First Flow whose rating was 162 before the race is no help, as I'm sure, though beaten 18 lengths that he was eased.
I'm sure both horses in Saturday's finish could be high 170 performers but the lift is based purely on a great race. Maybe the more people shout at the finish the the higher your rating.

 

Which is what us BOFs were brought up on and miss so much.

 

Hear, hear! Sadly, races like the Cesarewitch and Cambridgeshire should be thrown on the rubbish pile. They’re a sick indictment and caricature of what they used to be.