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Off Topic WW3 How Close?

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Nozs’ Hat, Jan 20, 2022.

  1. polyphemus

    polyphemus Well-Known Member

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    History is repeating itself.
    IF Ukraine joins NATO, then NATO will/could have weapons on Rissia's border.

    In the early sixties, The USSR was unhasppy that The USA had rockets in Turkey that were pointed at USSR.
    So they sent thier Rockets to their friends in Cuba, and pointed these at USA.
    This led to brinkmanship at a level not seen before or since.

    In the end Mr Kruschov backed off and withdrew his weapons.
    And he didn't stay in power for very long after doing so.

    Mr Putin has shown a great liking for staying in power.
    So what lesson do you think he might have learned from this bit of recent history?
     
    #21
  2. Sunderpitt

    Sunderpitt Well-Known Member

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    Putin is a dictator who wants to stay in power. To appease the masses he will start a war...

    Hitler annexed Poland... Putin is on that trail.
     
    #22
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  3. COYCS

    COYCS Well-Known Member

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    Just about sums it up, they haven't had a proper leader for years

    Putin will do whatever he wants, the only way to get him is through his money tied up in western banks.
     
    #23
  4. Sunderlad

    Sunderlad Well-Known Member

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    Watch the Netflix documentary 'Winter On Fire' the last time that the Ukraine wanted to join the EU. It's a very powerful documentary. The Russians don't give a hoot about anyone.
     
    #24
  5. Draig

    Draig Well-Known Member

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    The US already had nuke rockets in Turkey - so right on the USSR's borders. The USSR were playing catch up by putting rockets in Cuba.

    As the rockets were removed from Cuba the US quietly removed their rockets from both Turkey and Italy so the USSR got what it wanted and so the 'Cuban Missle Crisis' had very little to do with Krushchev being deposed - although it was blamed.

    The Corn Lord (as he became derisively known in the USSR) had upset senior party apparatchiks by abolishing secret tribunals, splitting local party structures to separate industry and agriculture (thus reinforcing Nikki's power base because of his agricultural background). This, coupled with major problems caused by him abolishing tractor stations (effectively leasing companies which provided tractors to collective farms on full maintenance contracts) and forcing the farms to buy their tractors (at the same fixed price irrespective of the size, age or condition of the equipment or the size or profitability of the farm collective). The skilled tractor station mechanics, being key industrial workers were, under Soviet law, entitled to change employers and location - so they were guaranteed an Internal Passport. As the tractors were to become property of the collective farms the mechanics would have become mere workers on the farms. The collective farm workers had no right to change employment (so had no right to an internal passport and were stuck where they were). This caused the vast majority of mechanics to move to the cities, leaving the tractors (including all the ancillary equipment like balers, etc) in the hands of untrained peasant workers. This eventually caused major disruption to food production as equipment was poorly maintained and began to breakdown.

    At the same time as doing this Nikki, aftervisiting the USA, was forcing farms to start growing corn (needing more water than cereals like wheet and so giving less than expected yields as many farms had no access to irrigation, now with no Tractor Station to rent water pumps or well drilling equipment from).

    He had also began a 'virgin lands' project, establishing new towns for new collectives growing crops on uncultivated steppes. However, after spending a huge amount of roubles doing this, the USSR discovered exactly why the steppes wasn't previously farmed - half the year the soil is nearly saturated with meltwater or autumn rains, three months it is too cold and dark for crop growth and you need to water the crops for two of the remaining three months and the virgin farms were sited nowhere near rivers. Many of these farms and towns had to be abandoned after spending millions of roubles on them and their associated infrastructure.

    On top of this, Nikki had increased food prices (but not farm wages) and this caused widespread demonstrations and even riots in some towns and cities.

    Then came a major drought over 1962 and 1963, causing a huge fall in domestic agricultural production.

    The 'Missile Crisis' didn't worry The Party too much because they got what they wanted, with nuke missiles being removed from Turkey. However, Brezhnev launched his long-planned coup, blaming how the supposed loss of face on the international stage looked to The People (who largely didn't know, or even care - as they were more concerned about how food prices and shortages was causing more and longer queues) when in reality it was the reasons outlined previously which enabled his coup to be launched and to succeed.

    So current Russian sabre rattling on Ukrainian borders (a redundant phrase because Ukraine actually means borders/borderland) is nothing like the situation at the time of the 'Cuban Missle Crisis' and Putin could easily survive a climb-down as power in Russia is actually more centralised now than in the post-stalinist Soviet Union.
     
    #25
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2022
  6. Nonsense Potter

    Nonsense Potter Well-Known Member

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    War, a virus, terrorism, economic collapse, immigration etc etc. As long as you're scared of something, it's all good.

    Stop watching the news...
     
    #26
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  7. Chunksafc

    Chunksafc Guest

    Do I need to dig a bomb shelter in the garden?
     
    #27
  8. JC91

    JC91 Well-Known Member

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    Don't think an a Anderson Shelter will help like
     
    #28
  9. Chunksafc

    Chunksafc Guest

    But the video they showed in school said if you couldn't do that then hiding under a table would be OK.

    Did they lie to me?
     
    #29
  10. JC91

    JC91 Well-Known Member

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    All I was told in school was, better to be closer to the blast, as you'd die instantaneously. Which, would be good in a nuclear holocaust.
     
    #30
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  11. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

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    Putin sees how weak Biden is and is pushing the door to see how open he can make it. Unfortunately, he is also arrogant and may push too hard. He got Crimea by pushing and playing games.
     
    #31
  12. Draig

    Draig Well-Known Member

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    I thought he had help from the Martians coz I'm sure the news was full of mentions about 'little green men'!
     
    #32
  13. polyphemus

    polyphemus Well-Known Member

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    Once again, history repeating itself.

    In 1936, Germany simply marched their troops into The Rhineland, and anexed it.
    Apart from complaining a lot, the rest of Europe did nothing practical.
    This was the time when Germany could, (so most military historians claim), be stopped.

    You know what came next.

    And I have no idea what will come next now.
    But I agree 100% with Smug, in that it's by no means CERTAIN that this will pass over.
     
    #33
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  14. rooch 3

    rooch 3 Well-Known Member

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    Bloody hope not just finished my patio<laugh>
     
    #34
  15. gelders pie

    gelders pie Well-Known Member

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    Is it too early to be stocking up on toilet rolls again ?
     
    #35
  16. rooch 3

    rooch 3 Well-Known Member

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    Not really, because you’ll need the buggers<laugh>
     
    #36
  17. JC91

    JC91 Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's been nice knowing everyone
     
    #37
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  18. SAFCDRUM

    SAFCDRUM Well-Known Member

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    Have I got time for one last pub trip?
     
    #38
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  19. polyphemus

    polyphemus Well-Known Member

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    POSSIBLY consoling though here, IF it really goes up in hydrogen --

     
    #39
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  20. JC91

    JC91 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting I guess.
     
    #40

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