Match Day Thread Liverpool v Brentford

We're losing width on the right. Hendo plays all over the place.
I think you're right, that if Neco was there as well that aspect might improve, but then we'll lose someone elsewhere because we're not allowed to play 12 at a time.

 

No, I'm just watching football and commenting on what I see without allowing my personal prejudices to colour it.
Or at least trying to.
With the current set-up we have no width on the right, and that has been one of the major contributors to our success for a long time.
Bear in mind that in my original comment I didn't deny that there might be something positive from his current position, just that I questioned whether it was enough to compensate for the loss of his more traditional role.

 

at least we got loads of corners which suggests we did better getting round them.

Dunno what you were watching though. matip made some horrendeous gaffes and gave them their few chances. jones and henderson did fine.

the fact is we were getting contact with most decent corners in to the box so it was astounding we were so poor at attacking the ball. I think firmno just clear missed a free header for example

 

I agree, up against a side who push on this is ok as we rapidly break and movement is good but once a team is "set" trent has to get the **** out on his wing. he doesn't so teams can defend a half to 2/3rds of the pitch at most and so close up all the gaps the others need to play in.

This is a pure game intelligence question and one reason (mostly klopp saying so) that I no longer want to see trent at CM. If you cannot see what you are doing to the team by hanging about centrally making no impact against a set defence then you probably don't have the awareness to play midfield.


overall there is something positive about being willing to pile on in broken play and run infield and create options and add his shooting and passing ability over and above Henderson's hoof to the far stick but **** ME, please get out on the wing once the next phase of play starts.

 

have to say watching back jota could have had a hat trick and should have score 2.

also we were only 2/3 players shy of a full 11 salah and thiago for sure but then mane but jota played.

We really ought to be winning well with 9 of a first 11.

 

I’d say 3-0 is winning well

 

which is as it should have been. We kind of take a confidence knock at ties but this side should be winning well.

also palace are a passing side now but they are also lower half so there's no excuse there. we should be winning.

 

But it is compensating because his numbers are incredible this season compared to prior two seasons where he was more wide...

The wide positions are now being taken up by Salah and the RCM.

Given we are scoring a lot of goals this season, most of it driven by the right hand side, I would say it's working well.

 

Look we are 2nd right. Its no big deal as utd were jumping up and down about how great they were last year in 2nds and look at them now BUT we are 2nd.

We are scoring most against the lower half of the table but we need to be looking at the issues as well.

Our top half record is played 10 won3- drawn 5- lost 2. Goal goals v city, 2 v brighten, 3 v west ham, 2 v spurs, 1 v Leicester, 2 v chelsea. in the 10 games yes we have scored 21 but conceded 13

The issue for me is that we are leaking goals

If i look for teams that parked a bus.
Burnely 2-0 win
Villa 1-0
Newcastle 1-0
wolves 1-0
leicester 0-1.
cheslea 1-1 (red card)

 

I think in the majority of the games we dropped points, it's because we had a patched up midfield. Add Thiago next to Fabinho, and we improve the control and ultimately help to prevent goals.

However, we are actively playing a more aggressive / attacking game this season. Klopp wants more goals based on the tactics.

There is risk and reward ...

 

not sure i agree tbh.

Our game is to press high and have a high defensive line. the CMs are instructed to run at the ball when w elose it and try win it back so theres always gaps.

The question is where we lose the ball. Look at matip v brentford tossing a terrible pass into the middle of the park and giving brentford a chance or fabinho playing jones into trouble when theres an easy ball wide on. another chance gifted. Patched up IMo doesn't explain poor decision making.

On the more aggressive forward game if we look at henderson to trent v cheslea and trent can only head away and rudiger plays them in then you see theres layers of issues. poor decisions, poor clearances but theres zero layers of defense. The CBs don't cover each other at all.

Imo the only way to shore this up is to layer the defence better but also to change our ways in transition and in how we are tossing balls about at each other in our own half. some of it is bordering on suicidal. We criticise arsenal for it in their 4-0 loss to us but we are jnot so hout ourselves it seems.

I don't see it being personnel as they are all giving stupid chances up. thiago and fabinho as well! imo we are just a bit sloppy and over confident and are getting hurt for it.

at 2-0 up a more pragmatic tuchel would have shut that game down and won 2-0. We simply don't stop making the risky passes out whereas adopting another style of running channels and taking the ball in would be just as effective at getting up up the park.

one thing that absolutely drives me potty is robertson passing the ball centrally as he does it time and again and puts people in trouble. but where is his option down the line he can go to time and again and just not take a risk? nowhere. mane rarely runs that channel for him. 2-0 up thats imo the ball to play.

 

We have been sloppy in possession but that can happen in any set up.

If we look at the 18-20 seasons, we had Gini and Hendo sitting alongside Fabinho to provide that extra cover.

This season, Thiago is providing the security on the left but Hendo (RCM) is pushing higher which leaves space in the right channel. We will be exposed at times but looks like we're banking on score more goals.

Also have to bear in mind that VVD is coming back from a serious injury and will more time to fully get back to his peak (if he ever does).

 

Bobby showing once again why the press is so important. Loved his 'birthday present' for Minamino.

 

I dont think there's that much in system but there's a large discrepancy in cover. I think the 7-2 for Villa uncovered the issue nicely for all clubs as our line was so freaking high they could run from their own half and be onside. Thats last season before vvd injury as well. If the intensity is not there to make the initial pass difficult then there's passing lanes to get at us. That is the point.

It really doesn't matter who is there be it henderson of 19/20 or today or wijnaldum or firmino or what if the intensity drops and those passes are on were are in trouble.

But if we are also desperately sloppy in moving the ball out under a press as other sides give us our own tactic back then we are certainly in trouble.

Imo our issues are stemming from poor shape and inability to keep plan a going for 90mins.

You need layers to defensive system and for me there simply are not very many for us. We need plan b not only for attacking but for defending.

Press high, press often, push right up is plan a but where is the plan b at 2-0 v cheslea? Get good shape, retain good shape, control the spaces?

 

No, I'd say it was working well but not so much recently. And I don't just mean the last few games without Mo. Maybe teams have spotted it?

 

given the tactic in the FA cup was purely overload the rB slot and hoof it and largely Toney was posted there and hoofed at I think its fair to say the whole worlds knows to pull onto our right side and hoof it over the awol trent's head.

the issue for me is not really does it work or not as the goals for column says one thing but rather what happens when sides sit in and get good shape as its then that we are not creating.

The instant xhaka was off arsenal put 2 lines of 4 and actually defended a bit. EVEN arsenal who cant defend could clearly it and dig in against us and we look panicked frankly that we were not ahead.

Team know that by in large you can take liberties if certain of our players are playing. Jota gives you some penetration but minamino and firmino are empty spaces if we are crossing. there's nobody in the box.

 

Not when Salah is 3000 miles away.
Even when he's a bit closer he too looks to come inside all the time.
Trent could be the best RCM in the galaxy, but if he comes infield then there's nobody on the wing. Like I said, we started to make chances against Arsenal when Williams came on and did what Trent would have done more of in his traditional position. I'm convinced that if he'd have been on earlier he'd have created enough opportunities for us to convert one of them.
We need that width in those situations. Moving into an already congested area is highly unlikely to improve things, playing balls to people with their backs to goal, surrounded by defenders, is unlikely to get us anywhere.
Trent is arguably the best RB in football atm - certainly one of an elite list - there's long been a discussion as to whether he should move infield, but if he does, some bugger has to play outside him.

 

Unless we went three at the back...

I can't stand three at the back!

 

If we only had 2 fit cms then there's merit in it however I still believe that it's simply a waste of a player having 3 cbs when wides only play one (or zero) strikers.

 

If a side plays 8 at the back have a few shots.

If they play 2 banks of 4 then there has to be space wide to turn them. And cut balls back into the danger zones.

I dont think standing round the middle is doing us any good in either case tbh