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Transfer Rumours United's ever on going rebuild , are we nearly there yet?

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Chief, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    How do you think Fergie did it? Or Pep? Or Tuchel?
     
    #1681
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  2. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    Game intelligent players <ok>

    You never noticed that other teams (even poor one's) play a lot of one touch stuff because players are moving for them instead of standing watching?
    This is not planned by any manager because they simply can't know what is going to happen at any time in the game, it's purely down to players moving and being aware of movement around them.
     
    #1682
  3. cytrax

    cytrax Well-Known Member

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    Your responses that bring shades of Ole never ceases to amaze. You seem to have very short memory of how terrible this team had got under Ole. To give your short memory a reminder, were losing every other game. We went from double digit plus goal difference to negative 4 by week 12. In Ole’s last 9 games, we connected 10 points. That is 10 out of 27 available points while conceding 16 goals. We had essentially become a joke under Ole. In the last five games since Rangnick took over, we have collected 10 out of 15 points.

    Yes, I get it that we are certainly not setting the world alight. But do you care to the share logic why you think that the interim manager has made the problem worse? Perhaps we should reinstate Ole to bring back to good o’ glory days.

    Interim!!
     
    #1683
  4. Christiansmith

    Christiansmith Well-Known Member

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    Your suggestion of bringing ole back is not mine. Never has been but it is simply ridiculous to sack a manager and bringing in a worse one and even less respected by the players than the previous one. Clubs sack managers because they think a new one can get better performances from their current players, Rangnick talks bollocks, his system is bollocks and his credibility in assessing and managing top players is dropping by the minute.

    I honestly cannot think of a worse manager in the premiership and we are the biggest (by size/finance) club in the league. <doh>
     
    #1684
  5. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    You do coach it though. No different to instilling gengenpress.
     
    #1685
  6. cytrax

    cytrax Well-Known Member

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    Still can’t demonstrate why Rangnick is worse than Ole based on my last post, can you? Just shut it already, Christian! I wish you were this vocal two years ago when many of us had figured out that Ole was never going to cut it.

    The difference now is that we all agree that Rangnick can’t not be made into permanent manager. I don’t even think it is wise to spend in this transfer window.

    However, you need to get with the fact that the season is already destroyed! And that ain’t Rangnick’s fault. Further, he is an interim manager. And regardless of how disgusted you feel about him, we are not at the absolute rock bottom that we were precisely two months ago. Again, refer to my previous message.

    So please, be a little perspective in your disdain. If many fans like you objectively saw the truth and felt that way two years ago, we wouldn’t be here at this juncture. Fact!!
     
    #1686
  7. glazerfodder

    glazerfodder Well-Known Member

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    Since when did farts like us on forums have any influence on the actions of the club.....

    King Ralf is causing more problems than he was (supposedly) worth. All the egos in the dressing room know he's just a stop gap, he has less authority over these players than a supply geography teacher.
     
    #1687
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  8. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    There may be some truth to this.
     
    #1688
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  9. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    Ronaldo:

    “He arrived here five weeks ago, he changed many things but you need time to put his ideas to the players and onto the pitch, it takes time,” Ronaldo added.

    “But I believe that he’s going to do a good job. We know we’re not playing the best football that we can but we have many weeks to improve.

    “Since he arrived I think we are better at some points but as I said you need time, it’s not easy to change the mentality of players, the way they play the system and the culture.

    “I believe that he’s going to do a good job.”

    That's good enough for me <whistle>
     
    #1689
  10. cytrax

    cytrax Well-Known Member

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    We are talking about a messed habit of being headless here. It certainly isn’t going to a turn key change and I think that was always talked about given how far down the bottom this team has sank in all departments.

    This most likely contributed to many managers not wanting to take control in November. They knew they would essentially fall on Ole’s failures without time to create vision of their own.

    Interim is a great option!
     
    #1690

  11. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    Whilst Glazerfodder has a point, the thing he's missed is that it's not Rangnick's fault he's subject to the flaws of being an interim manager.

    It's the circumstances which have brought about a situation where we had to bring in an interim manager.

    There are faults with what Rangnick is trying to do though. He's responsible for the formation and the player selections and tactics, but it's not his fault he's an interim manager.
     
    #1691
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  12. cytrax

    cytrax Well-Known Member

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    There is absolutely no doubt that many of the decisions made by Rangnick are deeply questionable. Playing pretty much the same formation as Ole for one. Insistence on playing players that are out of form and using them in wrong positions.

    He’s done well in other areas. We are at least no longer leaking goals for fun. That was our number one problem. But the from players are just awful in this new system. Benching Bruno is a great thing. But not playing direct replacement in form of DvB is again another silly one. Albeit, it’s hard to tell what DvB is doing in training that managers are not trusting him to play.

    But Treble nailed this perfectly by pointing out that it was the horrible predicament that we found ourselves after Watford defeat that warranted the path to an interim manager and one that can bring in structure. Hence why we went for Rangnick and not keep Carrick in the role. If we can have any semblance of structure in place by close of this season, the next manager will have something meaningful to work with off season. Getting rid of egos that have been allowed to grow wings will be a great start and bringing in hungry players that truly want to wear the shirt as an absolute privilege that it is.
     
    #1692
  13. Christiansmith

    Christiansmith Well-Known Member

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    i believe there lies the problem. He has been appointed as INTERIM and the players are fully aware of that. What is the primary function of the interim manager? Regain control of the drifting ship, get the players together and make them play as a team. Exactly the sort of job successfully done by Ole in the first twelve matches (and before anyone says it, yes, the club should have then got a top level manager after the interim period). BUT.. what is Rangnick doing? He is ****ing ignoring his primary remit. He is changing formations, implementing systems that are not optimising the strengths of the players, making stupid selections and substitutions and instead of getting everyone pulling in one direction, we have increasing dissent and unhappiness amongst the players. Changing systems is difficult enough with permanent managers. With interim ones it is simply IMPOSSIBLE as the players know he’ll **** off in a few months.

    Rangnick is a ****ing interim manager not the manager for the next 15 years. He should work like one and if he can’t then he should be booted out. And another interim brought in.
     
    #1693
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
  14. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    Agree with your first paragraph.

    He could've made some additions like the workrate and high press but not to the extent he has with the formation.

    The 2nd paragraph not so sure. I don't think it would be good to change yet again. I think we have to ride this out now and hope it improves.
     
    #1694
  15. Chief

    Chief Northern Simpleton
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    I assume he's trying to implement a plan that's not going to be picked up quickly by the players, as it's a change in direction that can't happen overnight. It's as if he doesn't know what he's doing, that's just bollocks.

    If the club wanted someone to just carry on with what Ole was doing until the end of the season they could have just kept Carrick. He'd still be an interim manager though! They don't though, they want it sorted, which is why they have given Rangnick the task of implementing something.

    He should be given some time to do this, not calls for his head after a few weeks because we don't 'like' it. Or because he doesn't happen to be a popular ex player. Or if the players don't fancy it for that matter, if there is some push back from half arsed players on high wages they should be wheedled out and show the door.

    I heard only postive words from the likes of Ronaldo, it's clear he won't stand for any ****e.
     
    #1695
  16. Christiansmith

    Christiansmith Well-Known Member

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    It is very likely that the expectations of Rangnick have been overblown. Klopp started it by saying all teams will suffer from his appointment. Then others piled in. The reality is that if he was indeed that good he would be working as a manager in a top league and not in some director role for some obscure club in an obscure league.

    He has never managed players close to that level. The likes of CR, Fernandes, pogba, and others. I am not saying he’s as inexperienced at this level as Ole but he’s not far off. His selections and substitutions indicate a less then confident management. Rashford has not been playing well this season but he’s visibly got worse under Rangnick so has greenwood. He definitely needs to stop the rot and get some wins. The Villa match is a big test and if Rangnick gets his team to perform like that last FA match then the team will be smashed just like against Wolves. That latter match was a disgrace, with Rangnick watching cluelessly in the sidelines. If ever there was an example of a 1-0 demolition that was it.
     
    #1696
  17. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    So there seems to be a little spat developing between Martial and Ralf?

    With injuries as well as Africa Nations Cup and Covid absentees meaning Ralf only had six outfield substitutes for the game at Villa Park, Rangnick asked Martial if he wanted to be involved and claims the answer was negative.

    "He didn't want to be in the squad," said Rangnick.

    "He would have been in the squad normally but he didn't want to and that was the reason why he didn't travel with us yesterday (Friday)."

    In response, Martial has posted this:

    "I will never refuse to play a match for Man Utd," said the 26-year-old forward in a social media post.

    "I've been here for seven years and I never disrespected and will never disrespect the club and the fans."

    Personally, I can't believe Ralf would say that unless it was true, so fck off Martial <ok>

    As for never disrespecting the club or the fans, maybe he should take a look at most of his matches where he's looked and performed like a miserable ****. Clearly he doesn't know what he's spouting on about.
     
    #1697
  18. glazerfodder

    glazerfodder Well-Known Member

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    From the Telegraph -

    Exerting control as a football manager can take many forms. Once it was Sir Alex Ferguson's network of spies meticulously tracking weeknight Lee Sharpe benders, now it might be Mikel Arteta bombing out Pierre-Emerick Aubemayang for tardiness.

    Meanwhile Anthony Martial was allegedly absent from Manchester United’s 2-2 draw with Aston Villa on Saturday because he didn’t fancy it. “He didn't want to be in the squad,” said Ralf Rangnick after the game. “He would have been in the squad normally but he didn't want to and that was the reason why he didn't travel with us yesterday." Tough to imagine Ferguson or even Arteta tolerating anything similar.

    Later Martial disputed his manager’s version of events, writing “I will never refuse to play a match for Man United. I’ve been here for 7 years and I never disrespected and will never disrespect the club and the Fans.” You know it’s serious when “fans” gets a capital letter.

    Martial was an optimistic candidate for rejuvenation under his new coach, instead he wants out and is engaged in a multi-platform argument with him. There is no particular crisis in a stagnating footballer fancying a change of scene, but Rangnick seemingly lacks the authority to address another slip in professionalism.

    There are plenty of plausible excuses. A muddled and divided squad, Covid, the loss of coaches Michael Carrick and Kieran McKenna. The most compelling is in Rangnick’s job title. Let us revisit the odd concept of the interim manager.

    It is a longer-term assignment than the traditional ‘caretaker’ yet somehow different to the implicit interim gig of relegation firefighter. It is a somewhat decadent idea, laced with optimism that top level football matches are auditions and enough will be nailed to secure the role. Because that panned out so well with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

    Tonally the interim caveat adds an awkward clause to a job which demands uncomplicated power. It makes everything look a bit off. Standing on the sideline Rangnick looks like he’s borrowed a spare coat from the clubshop and will be returning it after the game. He is assistant to the regional manager.

    Then there is the fundamental cowardice of hedging a managerial appointment in an industry where everything is interim. Steven Gerrard is interim Aston Villa manager until Liverpool want him. Phil Foden is interim Manchester City centre forward until Erling Haaland arrives. Nuno Espirito Santo was interim Tottenham coach until his interim replacement Antonio Conte could do a stint. The only real difference is in the size of the payout if it all goes wrong.

    Rangnick seems to be suffering especially under the innate constraints presented to him. His results so far have been fair, the performances more concerning. The vaunted high press looks like a malicious rumour spread by mischievous Bundesliga fans. The overall vibe has gone from Solskjaer’s doomed tragic Abba song, the end of the romance of a lifetime, to a joyless visa marriage.

    Most worrying and least likely to change is the sense that players have a licence to misbehave, like schoolchildren smelling blood from a supply teacher. Theirs is an easy job in theory: show up, put a video on, then leave never to be seen again and with your evenings untroubled by marking. Unfortunately the Premier League is a permanent Ofsted inspection. The leadership vacuum is so stark that United fans have unveiled a banner with moody pictures of former heroes and the word “Standards” on it, like a stern poster on a classroom wall about the dangers of sniffing glue.

    In the transient world of football the only thing with a degree of permanence is ownership. The league is split into financial haves and have lots, but the biggest difference might be clubs with a cogent plan and those without. Manchester City have spent senseless sums of money with dead-eyed efficiency. Southampton have an identifiable style and rarely look troubled by relegation. Even at perma-crisis Arsenal a younger core is emerging and things seem to be heading in the right direction, until the next unexpected defeat.

    United meanwhile lurch from one nonsense to the next. See also Everton, themselves considering an interim dalliance with old flame Roberto Martinez. There is no discernible upside to the concept of these stopgap managers.

    Perhaps United are marking time before Mauricio Pochettino becomes available, but what if he is the sixth manager in succession to fail to tame United’s lucrative chaos tsunami? What then? Another interim? Just what is the plan here?
     
    #1698
  19. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    Why have you re-posted what I posted above and added 10 paragraphs of waffle? :confused:
     
    #1699
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  20. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    Pogba back in training. Gangsta! You're all excited aren't you <diva>



    Tbh I'm looking forward to his return with Ronaldo.
     
    #1700
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