1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic Don't shoot me but why is England/UK so hated...I just watched...

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Mackem-Tiz, Jan 4, 2022.

  1. cumbrianmackem

    cumbrianmackem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    8,856
    Likes Received:
    23,958
    Agree totally LBW, a couple of years ago we took our whole family to Normandy during that years D Day celebration just to show especially the grand children where they're great grandad landed and fought his way through to Germany and the end of the war.
    Both grand kids showed great interest especially the war graves we visited, we have the father in laws photograph of him in uniform in pride of place in our lounge wall as do our two daughters, we will never forget and attend cenataph services each year and see many youngsters doing the same which didn't happen when I was a youngster.
    I do think if there is no family link to these events then interest won't be the same, which is a shame in my view.
     
    #61
  2. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    53,556
    Likes Received:
    112,748
    I've been really interested in the replies to this and it's made me think about the subject more.

    Just for idle amusement I listed a few countries, made a comment and pondered whether people would easily spot whether I was talking about these days or how they conducted themselves in WW2.

    Russia - opportunistic, difficult to trust, keen on land grabs.

    Germany - arrogant, insular, controlling.

    Britain - Island mentality, happy underdogs who react strongly when backs are to the wall.

    France - arrogant without good reason, suspicious of the British.

    Etc ....
     
    #62
  3. Disco down under

    Disco down under Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
    14,023
    Likes Received:
    6,962
    I'd say, if you're talking about country leadership rather than the common people, Russia holds up to that in the modern day.

    Not sure about the rest.
     
    #63
    Smug in Boots likes this.
  4. Random lad

    Random lad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2019
    Messages:
    696
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    The ill feeling between French and English goes way further back than the last century
     
    #64
    Saf, Chip and Makemstine Roger like this.
  5. rb92

    rb92 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2020
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    1,761
    Same here mate. The local cenotaph is just outside a secondary school and every year the gates surrounding it are covered in poppies made by the kids. It looks amazing and is treated with the utmost respect all year round.
     
    #65
    Makemstine Roger, Gatesy, LBW and 2 others like this.
  6. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    448
    I recall that in the 60s I went on holiday in italy and passed through france on the way. There was a war veteran on the bus who wanted to relive some of his experience there so went up to a group of french locals sitting by a cafe. His method of communication was to speak pigeon english ..... loudly. I cringed away, and I don't blame the locals for looking at us brits as buffoons.
     
    #66
  7. Oldsandy

    Oldsandy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2020
    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    2,963
    Battles of www have been written about and films made. And rightly so. But I think the stoicism of the ordinary individuals should never be forgotten. Some people died terrible deaths, burned alive, suffocated with oil filled lungs, drowned, tortured, yet they continued to fight, continued to go to sea. We rarely consider the every day hardships people accepted. There was no “I think I’ll have a steak for me dinner tonight”. They were fortunate to have any kind of meat - and little of it. I remember, as a toddler, being in next doors house one supper time. His mother gave her son, my friend, a shredded wheat for his supper. I asked if I could have one. I was told no, that I should go and ask my mother for one. Which I did, to be told that there weren’t any. I complained that Derek next door was getting one. “You had yours this morning” was the reply so I got half a slice of bread and margarine - and margarine in those days was exceedingly disgusting. But I was lucky because I didn’t starve which children and adults did do in some countries. My mother and sister used to have nightmares about Germans marching down our street.
    Yet men continued to go to sea, into battle, into bombed buildings to rescue people. And women did what they could to feed their children and keep them safe. The population kept going. It is easy for us today, who know that we won to be accepting about it but in those dark days, nobody new that. And we came perilously close to losing: short of materials, Battle of Britain, Dunkirk, and especially the Battle of the Atlantic. Bad news days like the sinking of the Hood. People were loosing husbands, fathers sons, etc. Peoples hearts froze with fear when the telegramme boy appeared in the street.
    That is why I think we should never forget the ordinary people of this country, of that generation and what they did for us. Future generations will regard Arnhem and Alamein and D Day the way we look upon Waterloo, but we should never let them forget that they, and us, are where we are because of the ordinary people who became extraordinary.
    That is why I get so angry when t.v. Companies give screen time to criminals who boast about how they took advantage of the black-out and air raids to loot shops, boasting about how successful they were, what a great time it was for them. My father risked his life to bring those goods into this country, and many others lost their lives. (Im talking about a programme a few years ago when they interviewed a career criminal about his war experiences).
    Rant over. But I am sincere about this. No matter how vague or forgotten ww2 becomes, the ordinary people, that generation should always be remembered.
     
    #67
    Saf, Chip, Snaggey and 21 others like this.
  8. The Exile II

    The Exile II Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2020
    Messages:
    4,761
    Likes Received:
    6,844
    This is probably a good time to recommend the 'we have ways of making you talk' podcast. Well worth a listen.
     
    #68
  9. Ozzymac

    Ozzymac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    4,689
    Likes Received:
    10,939
    Great post Sandy. As a society we should always remember and educate the young about all the sacrifices that were made to lessen the chance of anything so catastrophic happening again.
     
    #69
    Snaggey, Robertson, Oldsandy and 5 others like this.
  10. Makemstine Roger

    Makemstine Roger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    58,379
    Likes Received:
    113,970
    lovely post mate top marks and i bet quite a few on here can tell a tale of how hard it was then being told by gran grandad and passed down stories from family members, i was told the tale of how a bomb hit the air raid shelter in hendon which was the railway tunnel over the road to the docks, the turnout from the locals to the funeral was immense so i have been told there is a metal bridge there now instead of the original stone one


    https://www.google.com/maps/@54.905...4!1s6hHgv1zLASNCAZtsSGOmwg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
     
    #70
    Oldsandy likes this.

  11. Makemstine Roger

    Makemstine Roger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    58,379
    Likes Received:
    113,970
    <applause><applause><applause>
     
    #71
    Oldsandy likes this.
  12. cumbrianmackem

    cumbrianmackem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    8,856
    Likes Received:
    23,958
    Well said Sandy, you can have 100 likes from me and that's still not enough, great post.
     
    #72
  13. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    53,556
    Likes Received:
    112,748
    "It is easy for us today, who know that we won to be accepting about it but in those dark days, nobody knew that."

    Well said mate, and that's the most frightening aspect.

    We can watch WW2 films, etc, safe in the knowledge that we 'win' in the end ...

    ... but in those days the outcome was uncertain, frightening and possibly horrendous.

    I'm currently reading books about the French Resistance and it's heart breaking. Young people, some just children, were risking and giving their lives, being tortured to death and betrayed by their own countrymen. For every British pilot they rescued and helped escape they'd lose two of their own.
    They knew what would happen to them, and their families, if the Gestapo caught them but they carried on anyway.

    Knowing you'd emerge victorious would make it all seem worthwhile ...

    ... knowing it could be totally futile, but fighting on, is true bravery in my opinion.
     
    #73
  14. Oldsandy

    Oldsandy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2020
    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    2,963
    Thanks for that Ozzy. It’s something I’m really serious about.
     
    #74
    Ozzymac likes this.
  15. Oldsandy

    Oldsandy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2020
    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    2,963
    Cheers Roger.
     
    #75
  16. Oldsandy

    Oldsandy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2020
    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    2,963
    I agree. Everyday we see ordinary people going about their business, completely unremarkable on any way. Yet who knows what depths of courage lies within them.
     
    #76
  17. LBW

    LBW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2020
    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    3,286
    My grandad spoke about the war sparingly, it wasn’t tales of glory and bravery but very much about the horrors he witnessed in Burma. Till his dying days he still hated the Japanese & was disgusted when one of his sons took a job at Nissan. People would say to him times have changed people have moved on but he couldn’t forgive what he saw the Japanese do, he said it wasn’t warfare it was animal like behaviour and hurting, killing & maiming for pleasure. He was a warm, kind hearted, church going man who couldn’t forgive them, he must have seen some truely terrible things. We are a very big family and everyone always said the same thing, we couldn’t imagine him being at war because he couldn’t hurt a fly, he took an awful lot to his grave but by god we loved him and he was one of the most respected men in our area purely for being a gentleman. He went to war at 18 and came home at 23, I compare those 5 years to mine at that age and it’s incomprehensible
     
    #77
  18. Oldsandy

    Oldsandy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2020
    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    2,963
    The Japanese were unnecessarily cruel. I don’t know if it was the way they were brought up or that there is just something in their genealogical make-up, but it continues today. It is about 3 or so years ago I watched a programme about Japanese preparing sushi. This Japanese bloke took a fish and cut off its fins, tail, then gutted it while it was still alive and flapping. I know they set great store in the fish they serve up being fresh, but that was cruel and unnecesary. It wouldn’t have aged the fish by more than a few seconds to have stunned it first - the least he should have done. I think this illustrates that people who are cruel to animals are only a step from being cruel to people - all they lack is the opportunity. And the Japanese got that.
     
    #78
    Chip, Robertson and Mackem-Tiz like this.
  19. Disco down under

    Disco down under Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
    14,023
    Likes Received:
    6,962
    The way chickens are raised in the west and all across the developed worse is far far worse than what you just described. It's absolutely grotesque.

    Humans are just **** with animals across the board.

    Stray dogs fill kennels every ****ing where. Bred for profit. Bought on a whim. Abandoned without any shame whatsoever.
     
    #79
    Saf likes this.
  20. Oldsandy

    Oldsandy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2020
    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    2,963
    I agree wholeheartedly. In mitigation, if that is possible, the chickens you mention and other animals bred for our purposes at least the cruelty is for a purpose; for food or profit. I’m not excusing this, even the boiling alive of dogs has a purpose - to sweeten the meat or so the perpetrators claim - an inhuman and barbaric practise. The cruelty dished out by the Japanese in WW2 was gratuitous. The incident with the fish had a purpose but could so easily have been avoided. But you are right, I am generalising. I’m sure there are many Japanese who would be as disgusted as I am with the fish incident. The British can be guilty of unnecessary cruelty, we just have to look at the recent child deaths for evidence of that. But these are isolated cases while the treatment of prisoners (and civilian population) by the Japanese was deliberate and generalised. As I said in my post, I don’t know if this was a national trait or in their nature. Perhaps it was the result of their military training; this Bushido (I think it is called). I hope people don’t get the idea I’m anti Japanese. I deplore the way they treated the people they defeated and the careless cruelty incident (perhaps it was an isolated act, but I think not) of the fish, and their game shows include a lot of physical pain, but at the same time there is a lot I admire of the modern Japanese. They are law abiding, disciplined, industrious. Their cities are clear of litter and graffiti. They are polite and welcoming. Maybe they have changed or the way their troops behaved was down to training, or upbringing or genes - I don’t know. But they were cruel then and I haven’t seen evidence that they have changed, but doesn’t mean they haven’t.
     
    #80
    Chip and Disco down under like this.

Share This Page