1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Grand Prix thread Heineken Grande Prêmio De São Paulo 2021

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by ched999uk, Nov 11, 2021.

?

Who will win the Real Race not the 30 min one!!!

Poll closed Nov 13, 2021.
  1. Lewis Hamilton

    37.5%
  2. Max Verstappen

    43.8%
  3. Sergio Perez

    6.3%
  4. Valtteri Bottas

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Lando Norris

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Daniel Ricciardo

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Pierre Gasly

    6.3%
  8. Charles Leclerc

    6.3%
  9. Carlos Sainz

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Any Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    24,143
    Likes Received:
    14,856
    well put up those temp barriers then .
     
    #501
  2. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,374
    Likes Received:
    1,830
    No it doesn't? It means if you don't pull it off and run off the track then don't winge about it. Pick your self up and try again.
     
    #502
  3. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,980
    Likes Received:
    2,145
    So the stewards stick by their decision - fair enough. The problem is now they have set the precedence that it's fine to run a competitor off the track on purpose! Does that mean it's acceptable to push them wide so they lose lap times (track limits infringement)? So push someone wide 3 times and the driver getting pushed gets a penalty!!! Alternatively is it ok to push a driver wide into a wall?

    Oh well once again we have the stewards deciding if they were right or wrong!!! Why on earth would they say they were wrong? It's like Turkeys voting for Christmas!!!

    They should have kept the decision as it was but clarified that pushing a driver off track while going off yourself is not acceptable. Everyone needs limits and to know what is allowed and what isn't. There are too many 'rules' that become irrelevant as precedents are set which nullify the rules - bit like a slight lift in a yellow section is acceptable. When they should be slowing big time as otherwise their could be a big accident and someone could get killed - oh hang on someone did!!!!

    Oh well I can hope for better rules and better policing of them..... :)
    Rant over, well till something else FIA/Stewards/Liberty do annoys me :)
     
    #503
    DHCanary and Justjazz like this.
  4. paultheplug

    paultheplug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    5,416
    Likes Received:
    3,165
    It will be interesting to see what happens if the roles are reversed in Qatar. I thought it was a certain penalty, I was not surprised that the FÍA bottled it. as Red Bull and Horner have got away with so much in the last ten years. I hope that Hamilton can win the title again this year just to see Horner explode
     
    #504
  5. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4,980
    Likes Received:
    2,145
    The problem is Max won't give way, so it will end in an accident! Max will hope both cars are damaged as he has points advantage.
     
    #505
    Justjazz likes this.
  6. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    24,143
    Likes Received:
    14,856

    I have said before I think Max will be WDC this year , and imho every single member of RBR Apart from Horner and the helmet deserve it .

    If they win either championship , Horner will be unbearable :steam:
     
    #506
    ched999uk likes this.
  7. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2011
    Messages:
    14,404
    Likes Received:
    5,571

    Fixed:

    No it doesn't? It means if you are run off the track then don't winge about it. Pick your self up and try again.
    ---

    This does change what controlling the inside means, and any decision contrary to the decision to no hit Max with a penalty will have to be explained as to why it is a penalty.

    But it's done, and on we go.
     
    #507
    ched999uk likes this.
  8. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    23,534
    Likes Received:
    17,781
    I feel sorry for this weekends stewards when the inevitable happens somewhere down the field.
     
    #508
    DHCanary and ched999uk like this.
  9. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    13,495
    Likes Received:
    2,568
    Surely it makes things easier, no investigation necessary. Help yourself chaps.
     
    #509
    DHCanary and Big Ern like this.
  10. moreinjuredthanowen

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    115,710
    Likes Received:
    27,602
    I reckon there'll be a few pebbles thrown over the circuit here for sure :)
     
    #510

  11. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,660
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    FIA were careful in their wording. They haven't said you can do this, they said based on the available evidence at the time the stewards made their decision and the new evidence is not significant. Therefore, the decision taken at the track need not be questioned. In essence, they bottled it, but did not give approval to run anyone of the track. Just, if you do, make sure you have had a quiet word with the stewards before and get on the radio to plead innocense as quick as possible.
    What I do get is they want to close the door on post race reviews of all steward decisions.

    Annoying as it may be, the fans just have to suck up any injustice and enjoy the sport. RBR should not have been allowed to raise the Silverstone incident, that set a precedent for post race reviews.
    They should also stop radio lobbying unless it is asked for. Masi sounded like a real weasel...''Don't worry we are just taking a look'' (or something similar) in a voice that made him sound embarrassed they were looking.

    I was ok with accepting whoever won the WDC this year, did so. Now I want Lewis to disappoint Horner. Grrrr!
     
    #511
    duggie2000 likes this.
  12. moreinjuredthanowen

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    115,710
    Likes Received:
    27,602
    As you say, the stewards dealt with it in the day. They could have penalised then but did not. As a result we all.move on except for the whingers. The "new" evidence had no impact as it didnt tell us anything new in terms of steering angles etc. Hamiltons car showed that and the wide angles showed fine what went on.

    If the stewards in brazil gave 5 second I'm sure verstappen would have tried a bit harder to be 5.5 seconds ahead not 3.5 seconds.

    Stewards do rubbish things all the time but this whine is beyond a joke imo. I agree that radio lobbying constantly of the officials should be stopped as it's simply arse covering and political chicanery
     
    #512
  13. duggie2000

    duggie2000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2014
    Messages:
    10,616
    Likes Received:
    13,877
    Horner has threatened to leave RBR a couple of time because he could not beat Mercedes, lets hope Lewis pips Max to the title and tips him over the edge

    Strange how when RBR had the best car and Vettel won four on the trot there was no talk of it being unfair to the other teams

    Best result for F1, Bottas runs Verstappen into the gravel and Horner can't do anything about it because the Stewards have already answered all the questions
     
    #513
    Justjazz likes this.
  14. eddie_squidd

    eddie_squidd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    2,701
    Likes Received:
    2,332
    Hmmm. Sorry but in the light of Silverstone it’s BS. And in the light of Silverstone, RBR’s attitude to it is insulting. If you are happy with all this, then this is the sport for you. Congratulations.
     
    #514
    Justjazz likes this.
  15. moreinjuredthanowen

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    115,710
    Likes Received:
    27,602
    I have to wonder how people dont think practically here.

    Lewis hamilton knew exactly where he had put his car and the fact he was needing to avoid contact in that scenario. Why? Cos verstappen would have smashed his side pod in and put him out of the race or damaged his shiny new engine. He took avoiding action and came back for the kill later. That's great racing.

    Max verstappen at silverstone is on the outside and refuses to give it up and gets himself punted it on a barrier and wreaks the engine etc. That's the difference. Hamilton there puts his car down the inside and is comfortable with the position but verstappen being verstappen has to turn in and not give it up so comes off worse and suffers not only loss of race points but a penalty as well and a future engine penalty.

    My view is let them race. If verstappen does something thick then let him. Hamilton is smart enough to get him in the right place and mind himself.

    This stuff about getting bottas to punt him off and all of that is just silly. Bottas is going to assure merc of the constructors championship here. Perez cant get close to him so that needs to just play out.

    If merc can get a 1/2 here then it's all over imo.
     
    #515
  16. moreinjuredthanowen

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    115,710
    Likes Received:
    27,602
    They are all whingers. I dont agree with any of it. Horner at Silverstone whinging on about trying to kill max was pathetic. As I have just said verstappen should have never turned in there like that. He was in the weak position and needed to avoid the clash but didnt and paid for it 3 times.
     
    #516
    SgtBhaji likes this.
  17. eddie_squidd

    eddie_squidd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    2,701
    Likes Received:
    2,332
    How can you punish one and not the other?
     
    #517
  18. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2011
    Messages:
    14,404
    Likes Received:
    5,571
    What's troubling is that they have totally dodged the question about what's acceptable.

    It would have been fitting to say in hindsight, this was outside the rules and should have been looked at by the steward, but we have to stick by the decision of the day...but going forward..... Dot dot dot ..

    They have left a gaping hole.
     
    #518
    taeleon, Justjazz and DHCanary like this.
  19. Julius Caesar

    Julius Caesar Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,665
    Likes Received:
    1,008
    There's no comparison with Silverstone, because there's no braking zone at copse. The first moment for Max to realise that Lewis is going wide is when he feels the contact. Here Lewis had ample time to see the divebomb in his mirrors and evade. I think Max's reputation precedes him with that crash. If it was Lewis on the outside getting punted at copse, everyone would blame Max (and rightly so).

    Monza might be a better example. Lewis closed the door and Max had lots of time to back out of it, but kept his foot in any way and caused the crash.
     
    #519
  20. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2011
    Messages:
    14,404
    Likes Received:
    5,571
    Max knew he was on the inside, but turned in anyway. He had a part to play in it too.
     
    #520

Share This Page