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Farke Sacked // Smith appointed

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by DHCanary, Nov 6, 2021.

  1. SteakFrites

    SteakFrites Member

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    He did in the beginning when we were promoted to the PL, but changed after Restart and has since kept it this way. Seemed to make a difference last year, less so this year (but I think this is more down to the fact that our central midfielders haven't been offering the defence much protection).
     
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  2. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    The amount of goals from set pieces and crosses has been ridiculous even at Championship level.

    I'm really hoping we don't continue with it.
     
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  3. GozoCanary

    GozoCanary Well-Known Member

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    Having failed despite my best efforts to get the post of Not606 Official Doom Goblin, I'm starting to feel quite optimistic about Smith. Part of this is definitely 'at least he's not Lampard' - and that's brilliant expectation management on the part of the club - but looking more deeply into Smith's record, there is clearly a very diligent and capable manager there. However, nothing will ever get me to buy into the revisionist idea that he was Webber's first choice all along. For me, Webber screwed up big time and got massively lucky. Farke took the bullet, but Webber has a hell of a lot to prove now. I don't know if he's a very naughty boy, but he's definitely not the Messiah.
     
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  4. Robbie BB

    Robbie BB Well-Known Member

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    Can you please quote chapter and verse for anyone at the club saying that Dean Smith was "Webber's first choice all along". When Farke was dismissed, Dean Smith wasn't considered an option. The "first choice" refers only to once DS became a genuine option, and he only became a genuine option once Webber and Adams had spoken to him on the Tuesday and ascertained that he wanted to be considered for the job. Meanwhile, Lampard had been sounded out and arrangements made to hold talks with him in Quatar. According to Michael Bailey, there was another, unidentified, England-based coach (i.e. not Knutsen) on Webber's short-list, but no, not even preliminary exploratory, contact was made with him, meaning that, once Smith became a serious option, Webber stopped looking beyond Smith and Lampard. If you seriously believe that, of those two, Lampard was the preferred option, I suggest you provide some evidence. Given that Webber is known to be a long-time admirer of Smith, to the extent that he (Smith) was among those Webber considered for the Huddersfield job, it is entirely plausible that Webber viewed the search for a replacement for Farke as over once Smith had assured him he was ready to come.
     
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  5. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    It's said that SW kept an updated shortlist of potential coaches should Farke need to be replaced. Why then were there only two candidates interviewed last week - Lampard and Smith. Some are saying that SW somehow got tipped off that Smith was about to be sacked, but even if that was true (fairly dubious behaviour if so), why were there still only two interviews? Did the others on the shortlist decline the opportunity?

    Admittedly, the media circus went wild over Lampard, possibly for dubious betting gains. The change came Tuesday night when SkySports reported that our recruitment team were "very impressed" with Smith's initial interview because of his detailed knowledge of the club, it's culture and the players. Lampard pulled out the next day saying he decided the job wasn't for him.

    Worries rose when the media suggested Smith was considering pulling out as well. It's all very well for the club to claim that Smith was their first choice all along, but if he had pulled out where would we be now? Fortunately he didn't and we now have a very good new coach. Is he an upgrade on Farke? Daniel was judged on results; that should be the same for Smith, and I very much hope he passes it!
     
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    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
  6. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    Webber comes off as a bit of a snake here , he should have been man enough to give Farke 3 games to turn it around or they would shake hands and part company.

    Farke carries himself as an honest gentleman and after everything he did for Webber and the club he deserved to go with dignity.

    Just my take on it
     
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  7. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    The clue is in the name, shortlist.

    If he'd interviewed 6 candidates people would say he doesn't know what he wants.

    It's not unreasonable to prioritise and interview your first couple of choices first.
     
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  8. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    Given that Smith wasn't on the current shortlist, the two candidates only came about because Smith was sacked. We could have ended up with none and a protracted search if Smith had withdrawn as well. Fortunately Smith didn't withdraw and we'll have a new Head Coach and assistant on Wednesday.

    Dave Freezer's take on the hunt for a Head Coach:

    https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/how-ncfc-pursuit-of-smith-unfolded-8488254
     
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    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
  9. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    Webber had two weeks to find a coach, RER - why waste your time interviewing lots of coaches (who, no doubt, Webber was tracking carefully performance wise anyway, so the final contact would mainly have been gauging interest in managing Norwich, conditions (player purchases) and the financial detail). There would be no point in mucking people around and if it had fallen through with Smith, he still would have had another week to agree a new coach. I agree that’s probably cutting it fine, but we are talking mid-season sacking here… we are lucky not to have had any matches with an “interim” coach…

    I very much doubt Webber knew that Smith was going to get sacked before he did, but I think it’s at least plausible though unlikely that Smith was sacked (and Webber knew about it) earlier than it was revealed in the Press, so Webber could have had Smith on the shortlist pretty quickly after the Farke decision was made.

    I agree with Robbie that it beggars belief that Smith, once available, would have been anything other than a top Webber target based on their history. Whether Lampard or Smith or AN Other (not Alec Neil though) was the true “first choice” sort of doesn’t really matter IMO as if we were interested in them all then that means we think they would be up to the job, so it ultimately boils down to who can agree terms and the conditions we wanted.
     
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  10. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    He could of at least cruised around Asda instead of going to New York
     
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  11. Robbie BB

    Robbie BB Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand why people are making such heavy weather of this. Villa dispensing with Dean Smith's services clearly changed the entire picture in Webber's eyes. Whoever was on his initial list (and the only person who we can be certain was on it is Lampard), became irrelevant once Smith confirmed he was willing to be considered. At that point it became, in effect, a one horse race.
     
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  12. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully it'll turn out well and prove to have been the right decision, but if it doesn't, that's something Webber will have to live with.
     
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  13. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    Something had to change after that horrible run of results and all the players will start with a clean slate .

    Farke had a few favourites that were guaranteed to start every game if fit like Krul , Aarons, Handley, McLean & Pukki.

    They should all be looking over their shoulders to keep their place.

    A few got a bit too comfortable regardless of results.

    We could do with a striker in January
     
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  14. Robbie BB

    Robbie BB Well-Known Member

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    No change there then Rick; it's not as if Webber hasn't been living with the consequences of his decisions since his arrival, is it?
    I'd be fascinated to hear what criteria you propose for judging whether or not it "turns out well and proves to have been the right decision". Is there an unstated implication that, had DF been kept in post, nothing could happen that counted as it "turning out badly"?
     
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  15. woodbine

    woodbine Well-Known Member

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    I have started coming around to thinking Smith was the better option. Realistically, anyone we could get in, would either have no experience in the Premier League, or someone we never heard of. So Smith with PL and Championship experience, and knows what it's like to be in a relegation battle, might give us the best hope.

    I don't know what's gone on behind the scenes, but I hope Smith can get Cantwell and Gilmour playing to their best, and I'd like to see Idah given more of a chance.
     
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  16. Robbie BB

    Robbie BB Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's going to be really fascinating to see how DS goes about it. My guess is that there will actually be a lot of excitement in the squad.
     
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  17. woodbine

    woodbine Well-Known Member

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    Saturday's line up will be interesting. Will he stick with the players, that won in the last game? and give himself more time in training to decide what he wants to try? or shake things up, straight away?
     
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  18. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    Funny how his favourites were the one's that pretty much were always up for the fight.
     
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  19. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    Well if you judge them on results and goals conceded goals scored they failed miserably.

    Who's to say Gunn wouldn't have made less mistakes, Omobamidele made more tackles than Hanley or Dowell contributed more assists Idah scored more goals ?


    If you don't think Farke can be criticised for his team selection then perhaps losing 18 out of 20 is acceptable to you .
     
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  20. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    I agree it would be impossible to assess, but my judgement for whether it is the right decision will be based upon, if we get relegated, whether we get re-promoted that next Championship season. Of course, we would still be in the world of alternative realities, but if we do not get re-promoted then in my view we would have been better off sticking with Farke on the basis that he would have offered the best chance of promotion. Any other scenario and as long as we make a fist of it trying to stay up, I’d say it’s the right decision. I’m not sure I would have said that if we had appointed anyone other than Smith though.
     
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