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The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 27th October)

Discussion in 'Leeds United' started by ellandback, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    <laugh>
     
    #41
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  2. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    How football can avoid another Derby County

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    By Elias Burke and Matt Slater Oct 14, 2021

    Derby County fans remain defiant in the face of their club going into administration but the reality is stark, with any new owner needing to put in at least £50 million to clear the club’s debts.

    Under the ownership of Mel Morris, Derby gambled on the dream of promotion to the Premier League but are now fighting for their lives in the Championship.

    But what can other EFL clubs do to avoid a situation like Derby? Will the temptation of the Premier League forever prove too much for Championship owners to avoid “reckless spending”? How can sustainable clubs be rewarded for operating sensibly? And what does sustainability mean for a football club anyway? What impact will the fan-led review into football governance, chaired by Tracey Crouch MP, have on the future of the game?

    The Athletic has spoken to several EFL executives and representatives of Fair Game, a group of 31 clubs trying to improve football governance, to find out what must be done to prevent other clubs from following a similar path to Derby.


    Paul Conway, co-chairman of Barnsley

    “We have invested in football clubs in five other countries outside of England, and the country that created football is by far the worst country to operate in as a result of the widespread breaking of rules by clubs and the insufficient enforcement of such regulations.

    “We welcome Tracey Crouch’s review to deal with this systemic risk to the English game. In the last match of the 2017-18 season, Barnsley lost to Derby County and were relegated when Bolton scored an 88th-minute winner. Bolton and Derby both later went into administration, but it was apparent to most clubs at the time they were ‘buying points’ through over-spending and likely violation of league rules.

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    Barnsley were relegated in 2018 after a 4-1 defeat by Derby on the final day (Photo: Tony Marshall/Getty Images)
    “This performance-enhancing behaviour is a real punishment to clubs that follow the rules — specifically to Barnsley, a loss of £8 million as part of relegation. Furthermore, if promoted to the Premier League, EFL rules violators are given safe passage and can only be punished if they are relegated. This appears to be anti-competitive behaviour, and we hope the review also addresses this important issue.

    “We do not think the Derby administration will materially change behaviour in the Championship. The average Championship club lost £10 million per season pre-pandemic and is losing more during the pandemic. As clubs recover, we expect the reckless spending to continue. Transfer activity was limited this summer simply due to most Championship clubs not having the cash to overspend.”

    A Championship CEO

    “You can’t be in football and not know a little bit about Mel Morris and how he approached things at Derby. It’s pretty evident that he pushed the rules to the absolute limits.

    “But that’s not why Derby are in administration now. Football clubs are sustainable if someone is willing to sustain them. That person was Mel Morris, but he’s now decided he’s had enough.

    “I would argue that the rules have not helped — in fact, they are ridiculous and should be changed. They say they are about sustainability, but they do nothing of the sort. If they did, they would allow owners to make bigger contributions.

    “Sustainability is ultimately about the wealth of an owner and their willingness to fund the club. Every club should live within its means, whatever they may be. The league should focus on finding better owners, not putting them off.

    “Sure, there should be some limits to the amount owners can put in to avoid distorting the competition too much. But those limits should not stop wealthy owners from being able to invest in a way that is sustainable for them.

    “We are all expecting Tracey Crouch to recommend the creation of a football regulator. That’s a given. But what’s still up for debate is what powers this regulator will have. Of course, the game already has a regulator: the Football Association. Does this mean the FA hasn’t been doing its job properly?”

    Ian Mather, Cambridge United CEO

    “We need a standard set of rules across the pyramid. I spent 34 years in private practice as a solicitor, and every one of those years was regulated. If you’re straightforwardly operating your accounting system, there are no problems. It is not complicated and could be done.

    “Concerning ground sales, they must be reportable to the regulator for checking. Is it legitimate? Is it being done at fair value? Some folks must sell their grounds, but it all must be above board.

    “If you look at the clubs who’ve struggled, there’s a common denominator of spending above their means. Bury, for example, got into trouble by offering wages that priced out other clubs. They won promotion but couldn’t afford to pay their players.

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    Bolton went into administration in May 2019 (Photo: Andy Whitehead/MI News/NurPhoto via Getty Images)
    “I disagree with salary caps. Why should Sunderland have to abide by the same cap as Accrington Stanley? But clubs must spend less than they make. It’s a simple model that is followed in other industries. Owners must demonstrate they have the requisite skills and finances to run a football club. That is how we make football sustainable.”

    Niall Couper, CEO at Fair Game

    “Derby is a classic example of all that is wrong with the way football operates at the moment. The big issue is that there is no consistent monitoring of football clubs, and we have developed a culture where it is OK to gamble on the heritage and traditions of a respectable club like Derby.

    “What we’re proposing is that we look at a reallocation of wealth outside the Premier League. Every club will be rated one to four on sustainability, including football governance, financial sustainability value engagement, and quality standards. The higher the score, the more money you get. This would incentivise clubs to operate correctly.

    “In 2019-20, the average club in the Championship was spending 107 per cent of their revenue on player wages. There was one club, Reading, who were spending 207 per cent. That is a million miles away from sustainability. It’s gambling the destiny of a community institution.

    “If legislation had come into place two years ago, Derby would not be in administration right now. I firmly believe that. This is our chance now. If we’re not given the opportunity to take it, the issue will be kicked into the long grass. We will undoubtedly see more Derbys, Burys and Macclesfields.”

    EFL chief executive Trevor Birch

    “We have long been consistent in our views that English football needs a financial reset to address the imbalances currently within our game.

    “The key word is sustainability, and to protect the long-term viability of the pyramid, which is the essence of our game’s success, a model based on unsecured owner funding cannot be relied on in the long term.

    “The EFL believes that a financial reset, coupled with secured owner funding and appropriate cost controls, will help clubs become sustainable across all levels of the game and create a more stable financial ecosystem.”
     
    #42
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  3. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    This the team I'd like to see, at least until January.

    Meslier
    Drameh Llorente Struijk Firpo
    Phillips Dalllas
    Roberts
    Raphinha Bamford James

    No Rodrigo for me as hopefully he'll be an impact player from the bench, along with Joffy.
     
    #43
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  4. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    I can guarantee that if Gelhardt gets exactly the same chances as Bamford Joffy will score twice as many. Yes big statement hut Bamford has never been prolific whereas Joffy has and is and I cannot see that changing because its a higher level in the prem
     
    #44
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  5. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Elland has just posted a great “cut and paste” as he does <laugh> no well done mate :emoticon-0148-yes:

    Its obvious what the problem is:
    1. Fans expectations
    2. Stupid cheat owners who bend the rules and spend too much on players and wages.
    3. Failing to get promoted in year 1 of cheating, because Villa cheated but git away with it by getting promoted.
    4. Derby cheated for 3 seasons and should have wound it in after failing in year 1.
    5. Sheff Wednesday did pack it in after year 1 but still got found out and punished.
    6. Birmingham City cheated and stopped after year 1 but are still paying the price.
    7. Derby County owner was a board member for the EFL and had backing by a bent twat who took 3 clubs into administration but got the top job and he worked with the Derby boss to cover his ass. This same EFL board member punished Leeds by £200k for breaking no rules. The EFL board structure needs reformas it has now killed Derby County
     
    #45
  6. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    I'd have Meslier closer to the middle of his goal line.
     
    #46

  7. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Never forget that the job of the EFL is to protect clubs and fans from administration. So we moved from Lord Hawhaw who hated Leeds and gave us -15 points. The same Lord Hawhaw caled the Leeds Utd CEO Sean Harvey a liar and a cheat. Lord Hawhaw retires and guess what Harvey who went into administration 3 times gets the gig. Cant make this shyt up
     
    #47
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  8. OLOF

    OLOF Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree Doc, Lord Bamfords contribution is vital to the team he works very hard, but a prolific striker he isn't.
     
    #48
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  9. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    You old fuss pot you...
     
    #49
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  10. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    On the shyt happens post I shouldn't have laughed but couldn't help. Keiron Dyer and myself have history going back to the day before Liverpool won the CL in Turkey, the night the scouse fans walked out of the stadium in disgust only to fund out they they had beaten the Italians and wished they had stayed like Leeds fans would.

    dyer was in front of me inthe que at Heathrow bigging it up whilst me and another real football fans discussed crocks and injury prone players. He was obviously peed off but come on he was a nightmare. Fantastic skill but never fit. Move in a few years and he enter the SAS survival show but has to bow out injured. Me being a cancer sufferer cannot feel sorry for old bighead as Ipswich have just stated that he is having tests in hospital ffs. He lives there doesn't he
     
    #50
  11. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    He cost us an initial 2.5m with addons that could total £4m
     
    #51
  12. FollowMe&LeedsUnited

    FollowMe&LeedsUnited Well-Known Member

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    It's a no for Nketiah for me. When he decided he wanted away from Leeds he couldn't be bothererd to put in a performance. He was an individual player not a team one.
     
    #52
  13. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    They gave him MOM but I thought he was pretty useless last night and he so nearly missed the open net, he scored with his shin. If Arsenal said to us in January you can have him for £12m I'd be disappointed it we said yes
     
    #53
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  14. FollowMe&LeedsUnited

    FollowMe&LeedsUnited Well-Known Member

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    Definitely. I'd rather nurture Gelhardt who will give his all for the team.
     
    #54
  15. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Hes had 93 appearances ffs how long do you think appearance bonus goes on for. The guy has cost us £4m already and has had a huge pay rise so please stop covering for the guy who gets the cash and delivers fk all
     
    #55
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  16. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    How many fkg years are some of you guys willing to put up with shyt. He has already cost us £4m in transfer fees and we are expected to pay WBA 10% of any fee we get for him. He has had a huge pay rise already and a new contract and last night Bielsa said fk off Ive had enough. Here is what our £4m has got us and even in the Championship he would struggle. Wales fans detest him because he doesn't score, doesn't assist and isn't a striker and that from every football pundit who isnt dark skinned. I am not fence sitting I have lost patience especially when we have better in the 23s
    A87B5D1F-227B-4E58-B757-BBB19B07BDE5.png

    where I come from we use the term GASH
     
    #56
  17. esteponawhite

    esteponawhite Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree, he's had more than enough chances, sell in Jan and out the money in a kitty to replace Pablo, because we never did, that style of player is what we are missing.

    off topic, barca lost again tonight, Koeman is trying to beat OGS to manager of the season award.
    <laugh>
     
    #57
  18. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    Bottom line though Doc is that until we sign one, or maybe two quality midfielders you're probably stuck with him.

    We need better than Dallas & Klich as well in my opinion. In fact when looking throughout the whole midfield it's difficult to see any of them scoring the goals we need. Add in Dan James and Harrison losing composure at the vital moment you can see why we're not winning enough matches.
     
    #58
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
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  19. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    100% agree but now getting silly because Bielsa hasnt binned him. Lets face it he tried for over a season with Poveda and Costa and Kiko, then Casey, Gotts, McCalmont, Stevens, Edmondson, Huggins, Davies, Hosannah, he takes his time but at some stage snaps the elastic and bye bye and last night he was fuming
     
    #59
  20. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    The next big question is what does Bielsa do with Drameh, Joffy, Greenwood, Summerville. Do we loan them out and spend a fortune replacing any of those 4 or do we save the cash and have these kids as part of next seasons 18/24. Yes we can make big money selling all 4but to buy better will cost a fortune
     
    #60

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