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Postecoglou & Lange (& Paratici) Watch

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Dier Hard, Apr 19, 2021.

?

Next gaffer, who's your preference?

  1. Arne Slot

  2. Ruben Amorim

  3. Luis Enrique

  4. Ange Postocoglou

  5. Brendan Rodgers

  6. Graham Potter

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    We've almost never appointed a manager who has previously successful even before ENIC. The only one I can think of is Venables.
    Mourinho and the like would never had considered us before ENIC.
    This mythical era when Spurs were a top club and could attract top players and managers and were challenging for the league year in, year out existed from 1960 to 1965. We've come as close as ever to repeating it under ENIC.
     
    #3081
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
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  2. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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  3. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    I sort of agree with him.
    We need Skipp and Hojbjerg in there, who actually made some good passes in that game themselves.
    Son, Kane, Moura and Ndombele, plus the fullbacks should create plenty of chances.
    They didn't, because we were slow and nobody played very well. Not sure that's a balance issue, though.
     
    #3083
  4. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    Yeah in his eyes you don’t need creativity in football.

    Just sit back, defend, knock it side to side and hope for the best.
     
    #3084
  5. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    FFP explicitly allows you to deduct money spent on women's football before the profit test is applied. Sales of land and money borrowed from the owners are explicitly not allowed to be added to income and spent on transfers or wages. The issue isn't affordability it is the FFP rules.
     
    #3085
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  6. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    We sell the land to pay for the golf course/housing/hotel and other development costs, which have been coming out of football income since Covid because there has been no other sources of income other than a couple of NFL games.

    Alternatively, we could sell some of the developments behind the South Stand, as I'm pretty sure that sales of land on the site of a previous stadium are allowed under FFP.

    It's not the rules that are the problem, it's the complete lack of intent.
     
    #3086
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  7. Billy The Spur

    Billy The Spur Well-Known Member

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    This club once had a spell of winning 11 major trophies in a 23 year period, that is almost a trophy every other year, which is not too shabby considering you seem to think we have never been a top club barring a 5 year stretch in the 60`s. This is also a club that used to break the British transfer record (on more than one occasion), and not just in your mythical 5 year period of being a top club either. Venables, Graham, Gross, Santini, Ramos and AVB were all successful managers prior to joining Spurs. Under the misery of ENIC this club has won 1 trophy in 20 years, bottled finals and semi finals and half challenged for the league just twice.
     
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  8. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    Bloke in a coat was successful, as was Ramos.
     
    #3088
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  9. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Bloke in a coat also took bungs

    Which is allegedly the reason we passed on Conte...
     
    #3089
  10. District Line

    District Line Well-Known Member
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    Opportunities to win trophies are limited due to the financial power of Abramovich, Mansour and United etc but ENIC have never cashed in on the opportunities available to them - that's where the frustration with THFC fans I know lies.

    If Redknapp had achieved any kind of serious backing in the January 2012 window or Poch in Summer 2015 then those titles were there for the taking.

    You could make a strong argument THFC have had the best players in each position at various points of the ENIC tenure - Bale, Modric and Campbell (I know the latter isn't really ENIC's fault) are easily in the top 25 most dominant players we've seen in world football this side of 2000. Pochettino in my eyes is Top 5 best managers we've had in the PL to date. ENIC have had the talent but just not cashed in.
     
    #3090

  11. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Poch did get serious backing in the summer of 2015: Son and Alderweireld were brought in that summer, with Trippier and Wimmer adding depth while N'Jie was brought in to seed a meme that wouldn't flower for another year, which was the best part of £50m - back when £50m was actually worth £50m, not worth £20m as it is now
     
    #3091
  12. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

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    I think the point is that we have acted reactively from a position of weakness rather than acting proactively from a position of strength. It’s easier to sell squad players when their stock is high and they’ve been part of a team tearing up the league for two seasons, and being in the CL helps finances.

    By the time our form had nosedived and we dropped out of the CL and Covid hit with the new stadium, the picture was completely different. Literally a perfect storm of **** situations that even on their own would have had an impact. All 3 together put us in a really tight spot.

    I’m starting to wonder if we should have sold Kane in the end. Don’t get me wrong I was against it on sheer principle, but in a parallel world where the player doesn’t try and force his way out and a suitable bid comes in at the start of the summer, then cashing in might have been sensible. We’ve had too many players who just feel attached to the club. Buying and selling players is obviously very difficult in real life but I think we’ve muddied our own waters by being too sentimental at times.
     
    #3092
  13. District Line

    District Line Well-Known Member
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    You aren't wrong but IMO he left business till far too late in the window, especially the Son signing.

    Son signing in late-August instead of late-July was IMO essentially the reason you didn't win the title that year.
     
    #3093
  14. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Toby, Trippier and Wimmer were sorted quickly - Trippier and Wimmer as we paid release clauses, Toby because once we waited out the window for Southampton to make his loan from Atleti permanent we had to jump in

    In terms of signing Sonny, on the face of it most of that came down to balancing the books, and there certainly seems to be a correlation between players leaving and players arriving
    Wimmer and Trippier brought in for a combined £7.8m
    Paulinho heads to China for £9.9m

    Holtby and Capoue leave for a combined £10.9m
    Toby arrives for £11.4m

    Kaboul, Stambouli and Chiriches leave for a combined £13.5m
    N'Jie arrives for £8.3m

    Soldado leaves for £10m
    Sonny arrives for £22m
    Lennon leaves for £4.5m

    It also has to be said that I remember reports of our scouts heading out to Germany a few days before Sonny was announced, as I remember rampant speculation about who we'd be bringing in with the lump of cash we had in our pocket after the combined sales of Soldado, Kaboul, Stambouli and Chiriches (I remember one of the Bendereses being mentioned a few times, for example) which realistically means that outgoings played a part in our incomings, given that was a season where FFP actually existed

    That leads to the question about whether we should have sold early or not, although the fees we did receive in July for Holtby, Capoue, Kaboul, Chiriches and especially Stambouli indicate we were wise to not accept the first offers we received (if any), and the fee for Soldado put us over the top to splash some cash
     
    #3094
  15. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    We've definitely not helped with that either. Just off the top of my head, within the last 2 years we've rejected PSG's advances for Dele, we once placed a £40m valuation on Winks and we supposedly rejected a bid (or two?) for Lucas from an unnamed club that was apparently worth more than what we paid for him. Then there's the sheer lack of intent to actually shift some of those we all know aren't good enough. It's then had a knock-on effect with regards to incomings because we're so clogged up primarily with ****, that we literally can't add any more.

    In terms of selling Kane though, I'd much rather keep our best players, especially at this current period. If I had faith in the hierarchy to invest any potential Kane fee back in to the squad adequately then I'd be more open to it, as I would've been selling Eriksen before we did or selling someone like Son but realistically we replace quality with mediocrity and have been doing so for about five years and that's excluding the fact Nuno's managing to make good players look painfully average.
     
    #3095
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  16. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that’s why I’m not sold on the idea of selling him. Aside from bloody-minded principle I have no faith in our ability to replace him with a single player (likely impossible given we’re not in the CL) or a combination of players.

    What I’d have liked to have seen after the two seasons where we were so good in the league was a gradual rebuild around the key components of the side who wanted to stay/were young enough for that to be viable. We dallied instead for too long and then when we invested we didn’t do it well. We desperately need Paratici to improve our recruitment and player sales and to think more long-term, quite aside from the manager appointments.
     
    #3096
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  17. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    That's where we definitely went wrong and it's hard to say if Levy or Poch or both were to blame but it felt like we rested on what we had and assumed they'd just get better. The best teams never stay still but we did and by doing that we then regressed. I don't think anyone saw the regression going as far as it has but it did feel like that window of opportunity slipped us by a good few years ago. The 18/19 window was then a major catalyst which sped up that regression.
     
    #3097
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  18. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    There were also some odd calls

    For example, in the summer of 2016 we addressed the issue of our team losing potency when Dembele was out (as he was for the first few games of 2016-17 due to Mark Clusterfuck pretending he didn't see an incident he was standing right next to) so we remedied that by paying £30m on Sissoko, meaning we had two players wanting minutes in one position. That summer Hojbjerg joined Southampton for £12.8m, and while he wouldn't be the player he is now for a couple of seasons, he'd have more than adequately filled the Dembele role in the team when needed

    Same can be said for a year later when we signed Aurier meaning we had him and Trippier meaning we had two players expecting minutes, which wouldn't have been the case if we signed Pereira or gave KWP a season to prove himself
     
    #3098
  19. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    And how did that work out?
     
    #3099
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  20. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    We had the most expensive squad in the league late 60s and early 70s but never threatened in the League which is the only real measure of a top club.
    I've not been miserable at all under ENIC. On the contrary I've been able to get a season ticket to watch us live against the best teams in Europe and seen the best Spurs team of my adult life just fall agonisingly short of the two biggest trophies. This despite several clubs being doped by dodgy money. If there is an owner out there who has an ethically acquired fortune and is prepared to spend it within the FFP rules on improving the squad and hiring a top manager then they will have my support. But our next owner is likely to be worse than ENIC in every respect.
     
    #3100

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