The non-Watford football thread

They are certainly not my Rangers.
My dislike of them stems mainly from their inability to separate football from politics and religion - and also from some of their less than pleasant, unsociable habits. I was first introduced to them at a match in Aberdeen - was gobsmacked at their Billy Boys song about being "up to their knees in Fenian blood" - and their "famine is over" song. Both were banned by the government but are still sung today - at football matches and when marching through the streets. Yet the police generally do nothing. When they were demoted to the 3rd Division back in 2012 - much to the disgust of many - I witnessed first hand their disgusting behaviour in both Elgin and Peterhead - vomiting, urinating and defecating in public, and attacking anyone who dared to object, all the while continuing with their racist songs.

And large numbers of them in Glasgow are Orange Order members - they march through the streets in silly costumes blowing whistles and banging drums, singing their provocative anti-catholic songs - and through predominantly catholic areas of the city too. And still the police do nothing.

Scotland's shame really.

 

What is difficult to understand is why Glasgow is the way it is whereas religion is not a theme in Liverpool BB. Liverpool and Everton also come from different religious origins but there are few around these days who can tell one from the other. Many also don't remember that Man Utd were also, originally, a Catholic club. (though Rangers fans might remember this- explaining why United are also on their hate list).

 

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment/...dice-in-scotland-is-a-threat-to-independence/
Interesting text here BB.

 

The odd thing about that article is the claim that anti-Irish prejudice is the threat. The reality is that both sides of that particular divide are Irish.

Its certainly a problem, but I'm not so sure it's as big a problem to independence as the author thinks it is. It exists mainly in Glasgow, and the racist element is simply on the 'Rangers side'. The city of Glasgow has a well deserved reputation for being both welcoming and supportive to immigrants - including the illegal ones, as evidenced when they effectively chased Priti Patel's deportation squad packing - as does Scotland as a whole really. That's not to say there isn't a problem, no country can claim that, but it simply isn't the problem that it is elsewhere.

 

Not sure that's a fair assessment BB. You say that both sides of that divide are Irish yet the protestant (Presbyterian) segment of the Northern Irish migrant population would have been of Scottish descent originally. If the racist orange bigots still think of descendents of Irish immigrants as being Irish after 150 years of Scottish residence then they presumably think of the orange brigade in Ulster as being Scottish. For them it's a simple equation of Catholic = Irish and Presbyterian = Scottish. According to surveys well over half of all people of Catholic Irish descent in Scotland (14% of Scotland's population) report cases of personal racial discrimination.

 

Scotland grab a later winner in the Faroes.

Heading for the play offs like Wales ?

England not great and sadly trouble off the pitch from the visiting fans .

 

I'm not so sure that having Scottish descent is relevant really - it's too far back to be of consequence. I know they live in the past, somewhat strangely aligning themselves to Dutch English king who, DUP take note, was rumoured to have been bankrolled by the pope and gay, but they view themselves as Irish. Around the same time period, there was mass migration of Irish to America - descendants of those still view themselves as Irish. Not meaning to be insulting, but sane people think differently - around roughly the same time period, there was a large migration of Scots to Poland - none of their descendants call themselves Scottish, they're Polish. And a hundred years or so later, there was 'forced migration' of English to Australia - their descendants don't call themselves English, they're Australian.

 

A rather lucky win it was too. They huffed and puffed a lot but never really looked like scoring (in typical Watford fashion) - in fact they can thank Craig Gordon for a couple of miraculous saves that kept them in the game. The Faroes were quite impressive really, for such a small country. Lacked punch up front, but well-drilled in defence. I was amused to notice their right back Odmar Faero - last saw him play for Keith in the Highland League.

Scotland will hopefully up their game next time out. To qualify they need three points from their final two games - unlikely to get any joy in Denmark, so really need to beat Moldova at Hampden next month. Difficult with Dykes suspended.

 

I agree that in the perfect World nation states (if they exist at all) are simply a product of all the people who happen to be there BB. But this only works if people are actually accepted in their new country - the Irish were heavily discriminated against when they first arrived in the USA and so remained 'Irish'. It's similar for the Turks in Germany - a player such as Lukas Podolski was never thought of as Polish, but for Mezut Ozil it was different. People of German origin in the USA would never call themselves German - but for those in Russia (ie the Volga Deutschen) it was different.

 

The Irish weren't heavily discriminated against in Australia - certainly no more than the Chinese, yet they remain Irish, just as the Chinese remain Chinese.

As to Germans in the USA - what about the Amish? They don't appear to consider themselves American as they cling to the language of their ancestors, mainly German or Swiss.

 

The Amish are all trilingual BB. They speak to each other in Pennsylvania Dutch, use modern German for prayers and singing, and all instruction in their schools is in English. There is nothing wrong in hanging onto a tradition as long as they are able to understand the main language of the country as well. I would say that the only obligations an immigrant has within his new country is to live by the law of their new country and be able to live without asking for state assistance - they should also know the language. Bearing in mind that the Amish belong to the most law abiding citizens of the USA then I don't think that Americans have any cause to complain about them. There's nothing wrong in remaining Irish or Chinese as long as you can adopt the new country as well. The Italians have been the same in the USA in places like little Italy on Manhattan Island - further still they still think of themselves as Neapolitans, or Sicilians even though the initial emigration may have been several generations ago - nothing wrong in this if they are capable of having a double identity.

 

Not nice to read.

Guy is only 24.

Good luck to him on a full recovery.

 

I think us and Celtic have heard this before..

 

As he probably made clear to the new owners in his secret meeting with them.

 

Looks like Atletico are getting the same treatment as we did tonight !

EDIT: Maybe not.

Got a goal back .

 

Just watched the Ajax v Borussia Dortmund game, and slowly coming down from it ! Europe's two biggest clubs when it comes down to producing young talent, not a billionaire in sight, two sets of the loudest supporters in football and no ''lifetime' supporters since 2018' ! The exact reverse of PSG v Man City. What football is all about - and close to perfect football from Ajax.

 

Stephen Burghuis is playing very well for Ajax.

A very different player to the one we had under QSF.

 

Ajax are playing him in a different position Mark - the competition on the right wing is too intense and so he has moved into the number 10 position (not that positions are too rigid at Ajax - everyone plays everywhere). He has settled in very well there. Initially his transfer was controversial because it's very unusual for players to move directly between Feyenoord and Ajax but he has handled the resultant hate mail very well. Although born in Apeldoorn he was an Ajax fan as a boy. Ajax have 4 ex premier league players in their current starting 11 - all of them appear to prefer it there. Sebastian Haller, Dusan Tadic and Daley Blind are the others (I forgot Davy Klaassen who also played at Everton). He's a different player to what he was at Watford - but he is also playing under a different manager.

 

Yes they definitely do seem to get the best out of players who maybe haven’t done as well elsewhere .

Guess they get more of a chance and are playing in a confident winning team each week .

 

No surprise Bruce has gone - only that is took so long !

Guess someone is lined up.

First job for them is to keep Newcastle up .