Off Topic Politics Thread

StJabbo1 said:

"We all" speak for yourself. Dianne Abbott has more integrity and ability than spaffer Johnson and his cabinet of sycophantic incompetents combined. The handling of the pandemic and brexshit together with the ongoing lies, deceit and corruption will. I hope, lead to a day of reckoning.

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ChilcoSaint said:

She is a subject of ridicule because the Tory-led media make her one. In reality she is an exceptionally capable and intelligent political operator. Her constituents in Hackney North certainly think so, the re-elected her in 2019 with 70% of the vote share. While this was a drop of nearly 5% on 2017 it was less than the drop in Labour’s vote nationally. Bearing in mind the hatred for her stoked by the press, which you have obviously listened to, that’s quite remarkable. It certainly bucks the trend shown in the Red Wall seats.

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It's Only A Game said:

Well I put the post up so obviously I am speaking for myself, and speaking for myself we all dodged a bullet.
The conversation (surprisingly) wasn't about the government but Diane Abbott's personal political ability and again, speaking for myself Integrity and ability are words I wouldn't normally associate with her.
You guys are so obsessed that every post turns into a rant about the government even if that's not how it started out.

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ChilcoSaint said:

She is a subject of ridicule because the Tory-led media make her one. In reality she is an exceptionally capable and intelligent political operator. Her constituents in Hackney North certainly think so, the re-elected her in 2019 with 70% of the vote share. While this was a drop of nearly 5% on 2017 it was less than the drop in Labour’s vote nationally. Bearing in mind the hatred for her stoked by the press, which you have obviously listened to, that’s quite remarkable. It certainly bucks the trend shown in the Red Wall seats.

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ChilcoSaint said:

Read my reply, I didn’t mention the government once.

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It's Only A Game said:

No fair play, you didn't. Bet you wanted to though.

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StJabbo1 said:

I would disagree about her ability and integrity. Her numbers gaff was totally upstaged by "hundreds and thousands" Patel. Her integrity in comparison with the tory PPE excesses also stands up well unless you have examples to show otherwise. The what if Abbott/Corbyn chestnut is well worn. Edit, or should I say half baked.

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The Ides of March said:

What is the reason for the fuel supply shortage, the shortfall in HGV drivers, the shortagle of certain foodstuffs in supermarkets, a rise in fuel prices at a higher rate than in EU countries? It isn't as a result of any action of a Labour Government. It is down to Johnson's disastrous Brexit!! And the sooner everybody realises that the better. Johnson is an absolute wrecking ball. . ,

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The Ides of March said:

I have taken this from FB. It is about HGV drivers and the industry they work in.

Simon Finn
September25at8:15AM ·
Sorry it’s a long one but for those of you who are not in the industry this is a factual insight into the UK driving industry today without media bias or political spin....
Plenty of UK drivers but they no longer drive or are walking away from the industry because.......
1. Constant threat of being charged a weeks wages for getting it wrong by DVSA in scaled penalty charges, which are not always down to the driver and are genuine mistakes through human nature.
2. Constantly working to a week based on 50 hours but in reality it’s 60 plus hours a week and that is each and every week, and for a lot of drivers that is on flat money as firms do not pay overtime premiums or unsociable start premiums.
3. Unrealistic delivery times putting drivers under constant pressure.
4. Start times varied from day to day preventing you from obtaining a regular sleep pattern or life pattern 4-6 hrs sleep a night is the average, and for those drivers trying to fit a home life in when they are home midweek on a 9hr break it’s nearer to 4 if they are lucky.
5. Having to work any 5 from 7 and every weekend for a lot of supermarket contracts to guarantee they have weekend drivers but your being paid flat money as they are deemed to be part of your standard weekly shift.
6. Lack of service areas for breaks with healthy cooked meals or even to have the availability of clean toilet facilities.
7. Being lied to by your transport team, favouritism of drivers and their work allocation which is detrimental to others within the depot. Being hated at delivery points and being denied access to toilets or onsite facilities, leaving drivers feeling undervalued second class workers who are proffesional and diligent in their duties and try by various means to achieve unrealistic ETA’s and booking times but still get the finger blame pointed at them. It is never accepted as mis-management or poor allocation, and despite all this they have no choice but to carry on regardless.
8. Once you reach the age of 45 you have to have a medical to renew your licence, doctors charge between £80 - £150 which the driver has to pay for personally.
9. Driving hours and duty are recorded on a digital card which again costs £32 initially and then £19.00 to renew every few years. Which again the driver pays for but is required to record their duty periods for company use and data capture.
10. Driver CPC ... 35 hours training (5 sessions spread over five years) of learning of what most drivers already know which can be part repeated modules and cost around £60 a session, some companies will pay this on a session a year for each year of service basis but in a lot of cases you are then expected to attend this training on a Saturday or Sunday during your weekly rest period and without being paid. If the company does not pay your training then it is down to the individual again to pay it personally.
So a driver who has an HGV and is over the age of 45 who perhaps gave it up but decides to return to driving has to pay up front £500 + before they go out and earn a penny.
Again petroleum requires additional training to obtain a Haz Chem card which may be down to the driver pay and must held before they can transport those goods so BP can’t just get a European driver or soldier and put them behind the wheel.
11. Is it right that a person can work 15 hours a day, have the minimum 9 hours off then start work again for three consecutive days before they get 11 hours off, however if during the 4th and 5th day the driver has a delay of over 3hrs at one customer point and books the delay as break he can continue taking 9 hour daily breaks on those days too. Could you image the public out cry if a Pilot flew to those hours, and yet we are expected to be in control of a vehicle designed to be a total train weight of 44tonnes and drIving for up to 9 hrs a day which can be increased to 10 hrs twice a week with sleep deprivation.
12. Not all companies pay to park in services or truck stops so drivers are forced to park and sleep in lay-bys or trading estates with no facilities and trying to rest knowing they face a real risk of being confronted by the criminal element either wanting to steal diesel or the load during the night. If company’s do pay for parking which on average is £30+ per night most firms take a couple of weeks to process the receipt before the driver gets his cash back through his payroll this can easily be £250 owed to the driver if they are out 4 nights a week.
13. Most firms only give 20 days paid holiday plus bank holidays a year, which to be honest is not enough, as by the time you have done 4-5 months of working under these conditions you are hanging.
At present drivers suffer from overweight, high blood pressure, diabetes, failed relationships, depression and poor posture all that is associated and attributable with spending 60hrs a week plus in a truck without basic facilities or a clear plan of work hours, or knowing when/if they will see their home and family that week.
Not everybody is tempted by the money there are more important things in life like “the work life balance.”
The only way this situation can be improved is for the Department of Transport and the Employers to sit down and rethink how the conditions can be improved, the work life balance to be reinstated, to provide quality parking facilities with decent amenities at a sensible cost, create access to healthy eating options rather than KFC, McDonalds or Burger King which is the food franchise in every service station. Make it mandatory that every vehicle is equipped with a fridge and microwave to allow the driver to take and keep or prepare healthy food options whilst at work or away from home. Put the onus on RDC’s etc to turn drivers around in the shortest possible times, reduce the financial burden of medicals, licence renewal fees, driver CPC digicards and the like, and the myriad of other issues that I haven’t raised, then family men and women might want to return or take the profession up as a career.
This is my opinion as a HGV driver and that of other license holders I know that no longer drive, or who are thinking of leaving the industry.
Please feel free to copy or share in order to raise an informed awareness of the situation we as drivers face today.

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St Badger said:

I want to comment about RDCs (Regional Distribution Centres) about my time at the Southampton Lidl RDC (although they started to call it SSC - Store Support Centre before I left).
Bear in mind that I last worked there in March 2020, so the system may have changed, and I don’t know how other companies RDCs work, so this is just a snapshot of one company.
On arrival the driver parks up and reports to the Goods In desk where he/she gives PAPERWORK to the Goods In clerk. Seriously, in this day and age Lidl still insists on receiving paperwork, which should reflect the order that Lidl placed ELECTRONICALLY.
The Goods In clerk assigns the driver a bay number, which may or may not be clear, depending on how busy the depot is. They may have to wait for the bay to be freed up, by an earlier driver leaving the bay.
The Goods In clerk then has to use the PAPERWORK to input the delivery contents, information onto his/her system before sending it ELECTRONICALLY, to the handsets of the Checkers.
Sometimes, when busy, the Goods In clerk gets delayed in entering/sending the information, which means the delivery cannot be checked off.
Also, sometimes, the driver turns up with no paperwork, which means that he has to sit and wait until someone from Lidl has contacted the sending depot, asking them to send the paperwork ELECTRONICALLY, which is then used to input the information.
This system is so antiquated, it causes unnecessary delays. Everything should be done at the touch of a button, with no need for paper, but that is how it is/was.

So, now booked in, the driver backs onto the bay and then, because of the contracts that Lidl enter into with suppliers, and to help them reduce their own staffing levels, the driver has to unload his own lorry.
This entails them using electric pump trucks, for which they are given a key, in return for them handing over their lorry keys.
If they are lucky the pump truck battery will be sufficiently charged for them to get the job done. If not they can hopefully swap for another truck. If all pump trucks are already in use, they will have to plug theirs in and wait for it to recharge enough for them to complete the job.
Another part of the Lidl contract with employers, pisses off both drivers and Lidl staff alike. In order to get as much stock as possible, on each lorry, Lidl accepts pallets that contain different products, which makes it impossible to count accurately. So, here’s the rub. Under the Lidl contract the driver is responsible for separating the stock on these pallets. This takes time and also causes untold arguments, between the driver and the checking staff, especially if the driver is an agency driver making his first visit to a Lidl RDC, because they are seldom told, by the supplier hiring them, that they have to both unload the lorry and manually handle stock.
I have almost seen people come to blows over this.
Any driver refusing to do the unloading/manual handling is reported to the supplier, who then phones the driver and presses all the right buttons to get them to do the job.
After unloading, the driver returns to the Goods In desk and waits for the delivery to be checked.
If the driver has upset the checking staff, they deliberately delay him!!
They do this by checking off the delivery and then, instead of pressing the End button, to transmit the information back to the Goods In desk, they suspend the delivery and wait until they get a call asking if they are having a problem with the delivery. This can be counter productive, as the staff that move the pallets from the bay to the storage areas, need the delivery to be ended by the checkers and the Goods In desk, before the stock shows up on their Bulk Movers screens allowing them to move it.
Another thing to bear in mind is that quite often there will be just one checker, who on a busy day might be checking one delivery and have another 5/6/7 waiting for checking, which also adds to the delays of drivers.

So any driver delivering to Lidl is, in my opinion, not respected by Lidl.

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The Ides of March said:

What is the reason for the fuel supply shortage, the shortfall in HGV drivers, the shortagle of certain foodstuffs in supermarkets, a rise in fuel prices at a higher rate than in EU countries? It isn't as a result of any action of a Labour Government. It is down to Johnson's disastrous Brexit!! And the sooner everybody realises that the better. Johnson is an absolute wrecking ball. . ,

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It's Only A Game said:

I'll say it again, this is not about the government. You are trying to divert the conversation away from Diane Abbott to your favourite subject. I'm not defending the government so throwing examples of their failings to me is a waste of time.

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St Badger said:

I want to comment about RDCs (Regional Distribution Centres) about my time at the Southampton Lidl RDC (although they started to call it SSC - Store Support Centre before I left).
Bear in mind that I last worked there in March 2020, so the system may have changed, and I don’t know how other companies RDCs work, so this is just a snapshot of one company.
On arrival the driver parks up and reports to the Goods In desk where he/she gives PAPERWORK to the Goods In clerk. Seriously, in this day and age Lidl still insists on receiving paperwork, which should reflect the order that Lidl placed ELECTRONICALLY.
The Goods In clerk assigns the driver a bay number, which may or may not be clear, depending on how busy the depot is. They may have to wait for the bay to be freed up, by an earlier driver leaving the bay.
The Goods In clerk then has to use the PAPERWORK to input the delivery contents, information onto his/her system before sending it ELECTRONICALLY, to the handsets of the Checkers.
Sometimes, when busy, the Goods In clerk gets delayed in entering/sending the information, which means the delivery cannot be checked off.
Also, sometimes, the driver turns up with no paperwork, which means that he has to sit and wait until someone from Lidl has contacted the sending depot, asking them to send the paperwork ELECTRONICALLY, which is then used to input the information.
This system is so antiquated, it causes unnecessary delays. Everything should be done at the touch of a button, with no need for paper, but that is how it is/was.

So, now booked in, the driver backs onto the bay and then, because of the contracts that Lidl enter into with suppliers, and to help them reduce their own staffing levels, the driver has to unload his own lorry.
This entails them using electric pump trucks, for which they are given a key, in return for them handing over their lorry keys.
If they are lucky the pump truck battery will be sufficiently charged for them to get the job done. If not they can hopefully swap for another truck. If all pump trucks are already in use, they will have to plug theirs in and wait for it to recharge enough for them to complete the job.
Another part of the Lidl contract with employers, pisses off both drivers and Lidl staff alike. In order to get as much stock as possible, on each lorry, Lidl accepts pallets that contain different products, which makes it impossible to count accurately. So, here’s the rub. Under the Lidl contract the driver is responsible for separating the stock on these pallets. This takes time and also causes untold arguments, between the driver and the checking staff, especially if the driver is an agency driver making his first visit to a Lidl RDC, because they are seldom told, by the supplier hiring them, that they have to both unload the lorry and manually handle stock.
I have almost seen people come to blows over this.
Any driver refusing to do the unloading/manual handling is reported to the supplier, who then phones the driver and presses all the right buttons to get them to do the job.
After unloading, the driver returns to the Goods In desk and waits for the delivery to be checked.
If the driver has upset the checking staff, they deliberately delay him!!
They do this by checking off the delivery and then, instead of pressing the End button, to transmit the information back to the Goods In desk, they suspend the delivery and wait until they get a call asking if they are having a problem with the delivery. This can be counter productive, as the staff that move the pallets from the bay to the storage areas, need the delivery to be ended by the checkers and the Goods In desk, before the stock shows up on their Bulk Movers screens allowing them to move it.
Another thing to bear in mind is that quite often there will be just one checker, who on a busy day might be checking one delivery and have another 5/6/7 waiting for checking, which also adds to the delays of drivers.

So any driver delivering to Lidl is, in my opinion, not respected by Lidl.

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Schad said:

In short, it's the standard situation: cost-cutting at Lidl puts pressure on the driver (and their firm), whose own cost-cutting has led them to have extremely tight schedules and procedures with very little leeway. This leads to delays and inefficiencies. These inefficiencies lead the businesses to conclude that they will need to embark on a fresh round of cost-cutting in order to maintain the desired level of profitability, further squeezing workers on both sides of the equation, who will then be blamed for not being productive enough.

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