1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Arsenal

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by PleaseNotPoll, Sep 24, 2021.

  1. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    63,614
    Likes Received:
    28,260
    The problem is we have three players who we can say should be playing as a No10 at the moment: Dele, Lo Celso and Ndombele

    The issue is the reasons are different: Dele based on his runs forward, Lo Celso because the ****ehousery up the pitch, and Ndombele so he's not giving away possession so much in the middle
     
    #261
  2. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    11,640
    Likes Received:
    4,892
    Comments from the match thread against Newcastle in Oct 2014....

    On this evidence and other recent results, this team will struggle to finish in the top half. Flat, lacking any invention, shoddy at the back, no leadership.
    Was one goodish season with Saints good enough to be Spurs coach............no.
    I think if Levy is forced to sack Pochettino, he really should consider his own position.
    All well and good saying a manager needs time but that will only work if he's the right manager in the first place. Not sure if Pochettino is.
    We have too many players who think they are better than they actually are: Rose, Lamela, Vertonghen, Townsend and even Eriksen, who but for the occasional free-kick consistently looks slow and lightweight for the PL.
    Stat - It's Tottenham's worst start to a season since 2008/09 when Juande Ramos was sacked.
    we won't even finish top 6
    I agree with you if you replace top 6 with top 10
    What happened to having a midfield? We have another manager who seems to think that playing tica taca in the oponenents half is the way to win. It would appear that this does not work. Parker and Sandro gave us some strength in midfield Capoue is that kind of player and Dembele but both seem to get too little time on the ball. So at present with Lamella Erikson and Chadli we are far too lightweight in midfield for the PL. In fact many of our players, our Technical Director and our Manager have far too little understanding of the PL to be in the positions that they are. It is a nonsense that a club like Spurs with all it's resources should be employing people with so little experience.
    For me, it's the same old story. If a team comes to WHL and sets itself up to defend, and does it well, then we struggle. We seem to have no creativity, no width, no idea how to break down any reasonably well organised defence. It's been the same for a while now. Bale papered over the cracks for a time, but once he went....
     
    #262
    Citizen Kane. likes this.
  3. District Line

    District Line Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    13,366
    Likes Received:
    968
    I thought the same about Lampard after his first two seasons at Chelsea but then adjustments were made to get the best out of him. Way I see it is that he's either got to be moved into that #8 role or moved on.
     
    #263
  4. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    92,527
    Likes Received:
    52,186
    That was me and those pass maps illustrate what I was talking about perfectly.
    And this is the solution. Get Alli back into a role where he can put the ball in the net.
    Our midfield needs creativity to get the best out of him and we've got none at the moment.
    Square pegs all over the place, again.

    We went back to playing everyone in position in the second half and it looked a lot better.
    Far from perfect, but people were doing the jobs that they're good at and knew their roles.
     
    #264
  5. District Line

    District Line Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    13,366
    Likes Received:
    968
    We have the same issue with Marcos Alonso. I don't particularly rate Alonso when playing in our half or when asked to create (same with Alli) but if you get him in the final third it's a guarantee of 10 goals a season.
     
    #265
  6. Billy The Spur

    Billy The Spur Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,037
    Likes Received:
    1,910
    He is not being used correctly (hasn`t been for a while), his stats under Poch at #10 were as good as most. We do not have anybody else, Ndombele and Lo Celso are unproven in that role, in fact they are unproven all over the pitch, I would sooner see those two sold before Dele, they have contributed next to fack all since they arrived. It is all moot though, because we have a negative coach intent on playing a system unsuited to the players we have and shoving creative players like Dele out on the left of midfield where his strengths are completely nullified.
     
    #266
  7. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    7,668
    Likes Received:
    6,091
    The reason Dele as a 10 in this team is less appealing is because the creativity has to come from somewhere. Dele as a goal scoring 10 is fantastic when you have Dembele creating from deep and Eriksen in the final 3rd. We currently have neither, which is why I’d be happier to see other players tried there.

    He can be effective in other ways, as his hardworking performances in the first 3 games of the season on the left of a midfield 3 showed, but he’s not an ideal fit there either. Dele is a decent box to box midfielder who in the right system can also be an absolute weapon as an attacking midfielder, but we’re miles away from replicating the system that he thrived in under Poch, so using him is tricky.
     
    #267
    Citizen Kane. and Dier Hard like this.
  8. littleDinosaurLuke

    littleDinosaurLuke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    23,968
    Likes Received:
    26,048
    What a difference three games makes - in the eyes of the media at least.
    Arsenal had 0 points and were in desperate straits; Spurs were top of the league and flying.
    I think the reality is that we’ve seen enough of both teams to suggest neither are top 4 standard at present and will have to settle for less lofty aims and need to rebuild for a season or two.
     
    #268
    The Huddlefro likes this.
  9. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    36,284
    Likes Received:
    41,569
    As Hudd has more or less said, Dele was never the 10 for Spurs, Eriksen was. Dele had a somewhat free role and he flourished because Eriksen would pick him out and Dembele would boss the midfield to allow him such freedom to do so.

    He doesn’t have either of those two to help him look good anymore.

    Though unlike Hudd, I don’t believe he can be effective elsewhere. He’s a bang average player without those two and unlike Kane and Son, hasn’t been able to adapt and/ or evolve. We should’ve cut ties with him long ago when he still had a semi decent value and we absolutely should’ve sold him when Jose wanted to back in January.

    He’s not that good of a player, he was just a player that was brilliant in a system backed up by truly brilliant players.
     
    #269
    BobbyD and Lovearsenalcock like this.
  10. District Line

    District Line Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    13,366
    Likes Received:
    968
    The media run on narrative and not context though.

    I'm not one to defend Arsenal but they had the toughest 3 first games imaginable - Even LFC or MUFC would have only walked out of those fixtures with 3/4 points at best.

    Arsenal have at least started their rebuild, it's time for THFC to do the same.
     
    #270
    BobbyD likes this.

  11. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    92,527
    Likes Received:
    52,186
    Brentford was the toughest game imaginable?
    It wasn't just the losses, either. The manner of those losses was important.
    They got outplayed by the new boys and battered by Chelsea and City.
     
    #271
    BrunelGunner likes this.
  12. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    33,480
    Likes Received:
    36,866
    It is your opinion that our football did not improve over night ... not a fact.

    In the first 11 games under Ramos we;
    We score just 10 and conceded just 17

    In the first 11 after Redknapp took over we scored 22 and conceded 12.

    That is a fact.

    And that fact heavily supports the argument that Redknapp immediately got us playing more attractive football.
    We went from scoring less than one goal per game to scoring 2 per game.

    That is what led to results improving.

    In the next 14 games wher our results were not as good we still scored 21 goals and conceded 19 ... averaging roughly 1.5 goals per game.

    I do no claim we overnight became a good team...but we did, overnight become more attacking and more enjoyable to watch.

    I was at the Villa, Hull, Wigan and a Uefa game under Ramos that season and the atmosphere was dead due to the turgid football. We bearly created a chance in those games...if memory serves me correctly we only scored 1 league goal v Villa in those games and it went in off Darren Bents arse.

    The atmosphere at the other games was excellent because the players tried to attack so it got us up out of our seats.

    That is my complaint about the past two years and now...we are boring and turgid to watch...and for you to suggest that those of us who think football should be entertaining are responsible for **** tottenham performances is as far fetched as denying the fact that we were more attacking as a team the minute Redknapp took over.
     
    #272
  13. District Line

    District Line Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    13,366
    Likes Received:
    968
    It sounds laughable but newly promoted teams away are the games I dread most (and we are historically strong starters). I'd say the toughest opening day game I've seen Chelsea have in the last 25 years was away to Wigan 05/06 - we fluked a win but they battered us out of sight in a way that Liverpool or United (in their heyday) have never done.
     
    #273
    BobbyD and PleaseNotPoll like this.
  14. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    92,527
    Likes Received:
    52,186
    It's Arsenal, though.
    Imagine if it was Liverpool away and they played like that. 5 or 6-0?
    Old Trafford? Another 8-2?
     
    #274
    District Line likes this.
  15. District Line

    District Line Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    13,366
    Likes Received:
    968
    <laugh>
     
    #275
    PleaseNotPoll likes this.
  16. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    7,668
    Likes Received:
    6,091
    My basis for claiming he can be effective box to box is partly the eye test but also the stats. First 3 PL matches he had the second most blocks and pressures in the league, that’s overall, not just at Spurs. He also had the 3rd most pressures in the defensive 3rd in the league. Given those stats it wouldn’t surprise me if he was among those running the most too.

    Don’t get me wrong I think playing him like that makes him a completely different player and he’s not an elite midfielder in that position, whereas he was briefly as an attacking midfielder. But he was clearly getting through a hell of a lot of work and we weren’t conceding.
     
    #276
  17. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    92,527
    Likes Received:
    52,186
    #277
    The Huddlefro likes this.
  18. Left on the Shelf

    Left on the Shelf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2019
    Messages:
    7,716
    Likes Received:
    9,125
    Maybe we need to give up playing altogether and focus on coaching, cos in the last two games we've managed to turn Wolves and Arsenal into prime Barcelona! :emoticon-0148-yes:
     
    #278
  19. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    10,125
    Likes Received:
    3,322
    We were once known as Cup Kings. Now we couldn't win a raffle for a cup of tea!
     
    #279
  20. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    36,284
    Likes Received:
    41,569
    That’d be impressive if Dele was a defensive midfielder I’d say, when I think of box to box I think of Yaya, Dembele, Juve Pogba and Vidal etc.

    We’re not in need of a third player in the midfield to be defensive, we have Hojbjerg and Skipp to cover that, well we haven’t had Skipp in the last two maulings in the XI and it’s showed, we’re now likely going to be heavily reliant on him going forward as Hojbjerg needs him alongside to get the best out of the Dane.

    As for what Dele’s doing well in, we need someone who can pick up that ball and hit a blinding through pass, or a ping out to the wing for a runner, or someone who can hit a meaningful ball over the top of the defence (not a hit and hope from Dier/ Sanchez! Lol) or someone who can genuinely beat a man with a bit of skill and make a progressive pass/ cross with it. That ain’t Dele, it’s not The Argentinian Holtby nor the Fat Lazy Frenchman either though. Gil is probably our best bet right now as he has that no fear aspect a lot of young players have and I think he’ll be most inclined and willing to take a man on then look for the right pass, he showed more intent yesterday to do that than any other Spurs player and he was on the pitch for the least amount of time.

    It’s a damning indication that we’re needing to rely on young players but it’s the state we’re in right now and if this club truly wants to rebuild and reinvent itself then players like Gil, Skipp etc are the ones that need to be in that XI and having the team built around them along with Son and Kane. Not persisting with let downs like Dele, Ndombele, Lo Celso, Lucas etc. The latter’s fine as a squad player but he’s not a starter for a club like this.
     
    #280

Share This Page