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Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Stade Rennais FC

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by PleaseNotPoll, Sep 14, 2021.

  1. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    One thing's been pointed out by an r/coys poster, namely how predictable our attacking patterns were against Rennes - because we only had two attacking patterns

    Pattern 1, when Ndombele is in space: the ball is played to Ndombele, who plays it through to one of the front 4 (Kane, Gil, Lucas or Begwijn)
    Pattern 2, when Ndombele isn't in space: Rodon lays it off to Tanganga, who aims a diagonal towards Bergwijn - and it appears that Gil was also timing runs to prepare for this

    And these two patterns stopped working at the same time for the same reason

    Pattern 2: Bergwijn went off for fouling a Rennes defender with the interior of his cruciate ligament, meaning that the only diagonal Tanganga was looking for was one aimed towards Gil
    Pattern 1: when we brought Hojbjerg on he played on the right of the pivot where Ndombele was while Ndombele was pushed higher up on the pitch on the left, into the same position Dele's played this season, meaning he was no longer in space and effectively removed from the game as he wasn't dropping back to receive the ball

    It also doesn't help that, to try and bump up the numbers of attacking patterns back up, we then introduced...

    Pattern 3, when Hojbjerg is in space: get the ball to PEH and he'll play a one-two with Doherty - as in he plays it out to Doherty and Doherty plays it back in, even when Hojbjerg is sitting back and it might have been a better idea if Doherty ran with the f'n ball down the touchline

    Long story short, we lost our right-sided options first due to Bergwijn getting kicked off the pitch and then our attempt to create a new one failed as Doherty was reluctant to take on his man at any point, while we lost the left because the player who was tasked with getting the ball through to the left was then moved onto the left
     
    #221
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  2. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Double post
     
    #222
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  3. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    To be a successful football club in England these days the only choice is to build enough resources into the club to compete with Man City, Chelsea and Man United. Any other plan is doomed to failure and even this one is not sure to succeed. An NFL franchise could strengthen the whole club immensely and isn't likely to do any harm.
     
    #223
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  4. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Matt Busby was famously quoted in my youth that George Best would be his first selection in any position. I thought he was right then and still think he is now. The best players know how to play football and will contribute anywhere. Park players are the exact opposite...they play in the park because they don't have much skill. So they won't be happy outside their comfort zone.
    Kane and Son intuitively understand how the game works. Dier can train all he likes and might theoretically understand the position better but that won't make him a better choice.
    Try a thought experiment. You can have Kane on the pitch to replace one of our centre backs or not at all. Are you really going to play without him?
     
    #224
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  5. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    Did he ever do it?
     
    #225
  6. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Of course not.
     
    #226
  7. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    Because it was hyperbole.
    Messi is a much better footballer than Ruben Dias.
    He's not a better centre-half.
     
    #227
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  8. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    We all used to chant about having a team of Robbie Keane’s down White Hart Lane, it doesn’t actually mean we think Robbie Keane would make a good CB or a RB…

    Not at all. Kane would get destroyed at CB, as would Son, as would Lucas, as would Bergwijn and so on. Just as Dier and Sanchez would make terrible wingers or forwards.
     
    #228
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  9. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    Enic aren't interested in spending money on wages for players to compete with those teams. To spend what's needed to compete with them and keep to Levy's wage spend ratio, Enic would have to grow THFC into the highest earning club in the PL. Levy's never going to spend the money on the wages...I'm amazed that anyone would think otherwise.

    Personally, I'm not looking for us to outspend City or Chelsea or United. I just want the club to be better than the current **** show that Levy has allowed it to become..stop taking 10 weeks to appoint a manager who's not taking us anywhere we want to go. Stop pursuing players we're never going to sign, Decide that we're not a BIG club and start being a smart club...with a plan...properly researched management and the balls to dare again.

    You get better by wanting to get better....over to you, Daniel...your time is running out.
     
    #229
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  10. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    <ok>
     
    #230

  11. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the other four players you mentioned are good enough to be certain first choice in their specialist position and they would probably be worse in any other position.
    But my first assertion is nowhere near as bonkers as is now being implied. Tell me who you think our ten best outfield players are and I bet they make a perfectly good team and you wouldn't want to swap in a specialist who isn't in your list.
    Mine (including showing some faith in new signings) is Kane, Son, Ndombele, Romero, Dele, Skipp, Lo Celso, Sanchez, Reguilon, Royal.
     
    #231
  12. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Would now be a bad time to point out that Sanchez started out as a wingback in Atletico Nacional's youth team?
     
    #232
  13. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Mate, people who have no idea on how to actually improve things always suggest doing things better and smarter. Your solution is a recipe for us being mid table permanently which is exactly where we were before ENIC.
     
    #233
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  14. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    <laugh>

    Sorry, Daniel.
     
    #234
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
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  15. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    It is pretty bonkers because having the best team is about having the best players suited for each particular position. Not just having ten of the best players in general and thinking they can play anywhere.

    As for picking Spurs' best outfield players, it's far too subjective, plus there's only about three that I truly rate and that's Kane, Son and Hojbjerg. Reguilon may sneak in at number four. The rest will be down to either potential of younger players or predicting how I think a new signing will pan out because the rest are either average or toilet.

    Perhaps an easier way would be to pick the ten best players in the world, I've just ran a search and pretty much agree with the first link I clicked:
    Messi, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, de Bruyne, Kane, Salah, Neymar, Mbappe, Haaland and van Dijk.

    Yet if I tried putting them into one team it just wouldn't work. One defender, one midfielder and then eight forward players? It'd get destroyed by any half decent side in Europe's top five leagues as it'd be all over the place.
     
    #235
  16. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    That just shows a prejudice amongst football fans in general to think that attacking players are better. Kante not being in it is just ridiculous.
    My initial point was about our squad where we've got enough variety to play in many different ways. What has happened to us over the last few years is that we have gone from having about nine players of Man City standard, and four or five good PL players to come in, down to three really good players and about 18 decent PL players. I don't think our squad is weaker on average but the best XI definitely is.
     
    #236
  17. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    Spurs players in 2016-17 and 2017-18
    (Just a few years ago)
    Dembele -no equal in the squad
    Eriksen -no equal in the squad
    Llorente -no equal in the squad
    Walker -no equal in the squad
    Rose -no equal to that version in the squad
    Alderweireld - as above
    Wanyama - as above
    Vertonghen - as above

    Dier ... no longer anywhere as good
    Dele ... no longer anywhere as good

    Ain't digging but our first and our squad is no where near as strong as just 3 or 4 years ago imo.
     
    #237
  18. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    It’s not really prejudice when those attacking players are hitting ridiculous numbers nowadays. Kante is definitely someone to be had in the conversation though and let’s just say he goes in for one of the attackers, it still leaves a massively lopsided XI that would get beaten by any decent team.

    Any team can play in a variety of ways but it doesn’t mean they’ll be effective or good. Hence why Kane and Son at CB would be disastrous.
     
    #238
  19. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    90 mins of my life saved by not watching this game.

    Looked at the starting XI post-match, and boy are we in
    for a dire season if we cannot rely on squad + academy
    prospects to front up and win these games while the
    strongest teams are fielded in the PL. (
     
    #239
  20. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    I never claimed this would work using the best players in the world though. I said it would work for us. I also genuinely think that Kane and Son are sufficiently better than the others to oust them from their specialist positions. That is based on no real evidence for sure.
    If eight more of our outfield players grow into their roles and improve we could end up with a quite decent team.
     
    #240

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