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Weekend Discussion

Discussion in 'Leeds United' started by Doc, Sep 17, 2021.

  1. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    I never used to believe in karma but now I’m watching about Derby :emoticon-0136-giggl
     
    #61
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  2. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    I'm delighted for them. Hated the club since the 70s right through to all the spygate ****e. Karma like you say is a beautiful thing.<party>
     
    #62
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  3. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Thats my argument as we never replaced Cuisance 3 windows ago and we all know Bielsa still wants to because we went fir Gallagher. If the argument is that we have Forshaw back, thats a poor argument because it will take him ages just to get match fit after 2 years out. My other argument is in not blooding kids in the 2 cup comps for U21 players against EFL clubs.

    Yes we can say Bielsa knows how good these kids are but nobody knows until they play real football. We paid top cash for some players that were also wanted by top European clubs and top 4 Premier League clubs. We only got these kids because of being taught under Bielsa and a ‘Pathway” through to the first team. Where? Yes we may see some if them on Tuesday but we have an emergency
     
    #63
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  4. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree with you Meslier and Struijk being cases in point. Both thrown in to sink or swim due last resort.
     
    #64
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  5. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    For me their endless financial cheating has at last caught up with them. 12 points penalty for going into administration. Another 9 points for the financial irregularities. Shrek the manager only heard about administration whilst watching sky news. Shambles of a club <laugh>
    Wondering whether Jim White will get his best mate Mel Morris on talkSPORT <whistle>
     
    #65
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  6. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    Three of the next four PL games are at home which should see us climb the table during October.

    Pascal only will only miss one more league match due to the Carabao Cup counting as one of his banned games.

    Summerville made his debut and that will have given renewed hope to the other young lads.

    Reasons to be cheerful...one, two, three <cheers>
     
    #66
  7. Normanbitmyleg70

    Normanbitmyleg70 Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me that Brentford are doing what we did last season and unfortunately we seem to be following the same trajectory as Sheff Utd did last year.

    I really hope we get out of this rut soon and last night was a real missed opportunity in my eyes.

    The only good thing about the game was not chucking away all 3 points and Bamford having a "shot" on target.
     
    #67
  8. wakeybreakyheart

    wakeybreakyheart Well-Known Member

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    Good
     
    #68
  9. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    I don’t want to sound too negative but I did voice my concern before the season started that it is a big ask to expect what are basically the championship team to replicate last season’s form, the momentum and adrenaline of promotion, as you say Sheffield united couldn’t do it. Still early days though.
     
    #69
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  10. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    <laugh>
     
    #70
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  11. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member
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    Bielsa is attempting to make wine out of water when water is in short supply for depleted Leeds

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    By Phil Hay

    A bruising night at St James’ Park and not just for Steve Bruce. He and the crowd there are fighting each other to a standstill but Leeds United and Newcastle United did likewise, refusing to be separated and leaving a trail of walking wounded.

    Raphinha hobbled around at full-time, an ice pack strapped to one leg. Luke Ayling tried and failed to run through an injury, hitting a brick wall with a few minutes to go. A 1-1 draw came at a higher price than two points lost, a beast of a game with physical consequences. But nothing niggled so much as Leeds ending the season’s fifth weekend with no win to show for it. Bruce had the face of a man reprieved, if only until the next stand-off. Moral victories are small mercies for him.

    Resistance is all Bruce can offer but Leeds are in the habit of occupying higher ground under Marcelo Bielsa. They are three years into his reign as head coach and only now have they gone winless through five straight league matches. A mixed first month is a slip in the standards of a manager who likes to raise the bar but the thing about Leeds is that somewhere down the line they intend to think about Europe. Newcastle? Hormonal, sick of life and bitterly tired of Bruce. One evening on Tyneside told a story of how good Leeds have had it with Bielsa.

    And yet, a Newcastle team who were ripe for implosion avoided blowing up. Bruce stood through intermittent chants against him and finished his press conference by trying to explain how a manager deals with supporters who are gagging to wield their pitchforks. The answer is that Bruce can do little about it now. It will go like this for him until he finally sinks. But his players were there when he needed them to help, 1-0 down in a first half where fire raged in the stands.

    Leeds found that part of the game to their liking, promising as it did the proverbial riot. More ruthlessness in that period, Bielsa said afterwards, and St James’ Park would have had nothing to cling to. But Allan Saint-Maximin equalised in the last minute before half-time and it occurred to the crowd that there was more to be had than a tame surrender. Leeds regressed as time wore on, losing their rhythm and forced to reach far into their reserves of stamina. A depleted squad decreased further as Raphinha and Ayling succumbed. Victory was there for Bielsa and then it slipped away, the flow of a sprightly start replaced by an uphill climb in the second half.

    How thin Leeds’ options have become was shown by a bench on which the combined shirt numbers ran to 323, the highest — 54 — given to Nohan Kenneh. The average age of it was 19 and as those substitutes stood on the pitch beforehand, replays of old Alan Shearer goals played out on the big screen to the left of them. Most of those goals they would not remember. Some they were not alive to witness. It was easy to regard Leeds as badly stretched and in no small way they were. But this is how it is and this is how Bielsa has seen it before, a squad backed up by under-23s who look fresh out of school. So often, a result is forthcoming regardless.

    Bielsa is not for turning at Leeds; not tactically and not when it comes to the size, age or potentially vulnerability of his squad. That much was clear when he spoke this week and promised to get this season going by doing what he had always done: banging the same drum and finding the straight and narrow again. It has always seemed to Bielsa that the sign of a coach’s conviction wavering is the point where a fish starts rotting from the head. And as Newcastle are proving, rot is rarely easy to stop.

    When Bielsa said on Thursday that Bruce’s predicament saddened him, he meant it. Newcastle are a web of simple failings and bigger complexities and the only thing more striking than the clamour for their manager’s head is the fact that Bruce has any appetite left for his job. Their troubles are their own but Bielsa knows the touchline and the loneliness you find there. He has not enjoyed Leeds’ short snap without a victory so God knows how Bruce’s existence must look to him.

    Bielsa, though, has an extraordinary temperament when it comes to holding his nerve. We could go direct and compete for scraps, he said in the build-up, but my side are not made for that so what good would come of it?

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    One available centre-back saw Ayling move across from right-back to partner Liam Cooper and Jack Harrison’s COVID-19 diagnosis resulted in a vacuum of experience on the bench. Seven of the names on it had no Premier League starts between them. It was classic Bielsa, attempting to make wine out of water when water was in short supply.

    Poor results are easy for him to mitigate because, as he has on the few occasions when the club’s form has deteriorated, he can point to the long streaks where his training and planning saw Leeds right. He did not appreciate a question — asked by yours truly — about how he avoids knee-jerk reactions because the subject of change is a waste of his time. Stick to the plan and stick to it loyally. That way, a rejigged line-up can expect to find its voice.

    It took three minutes for chants against Bruce to start in one corner of St James’ Park and 13 minutes for Raphinha to send them all around the ground. His cross from the right was curling and inviting and helped by a dummy from Rodrigo, the ball bounced inside the far post without taking a touch. It was the goal Leeds wanted and the goal Bruce must have feared; cheap, easy and damning. Devoid of urgency in the press, Newcastle invited Bielsa’s players to wade forward. Which, since the season’s first day, was what Leeds had been waiting for.

    Bielsa stuck with Rodrigo in the face of more scrutiny of the Spaniard’s form after last weekend’s defeat to Liverpool. For 45 minutes, Rodrigo came short and went long and dug in with everyone else whenever Newcastle turned to Saint-Maximin’s wizardry to try and brighten the gloom. This, in short, is where Newcastle are: Bruce out and Saint-Maximin or bust. Not that anyone in the corridors of power seems to be bothered.


    It was Saint-Maximin, raising hell with abandon, who drew Newcastle level, beating Illan Meslier after Leeds let him off the leash once too often. There were other chances for Bruce’s side too, including a shot from Matt Ritchie which hit the inside of a post, but alongside some scary defending, Leeds had the pleasing guise of a team with goals in them when they pushed over halfway. Karl Darlow denied Raphinha in first half injury-time. Junior Firpo, who led that counter-attack, drove the follow up over the crossbar.

    To coin a phrase, these were the contests Leeds found a way to win last season. Not always easily, not always with complete control but often with a touch of finesse. They had their moments in the second half, the best of them a scuffed effort from Patrick Bamford straight at Darlow, but Meslier was busier and the opportunity to bury Newcastle arose in the minutes where the home support were rising in revolt. Irrespective of the feeling towards Bruce, a hostile crowd warmed to the possibility of a victory and the sight of Leeds losing their grip. From half-time onwards, Newcastle were as likely as Leeds to nick it.

    Bielsa lamented the missed chances, of which there were many, but he has more on his plate than a poor conversion rate. He is badly short of bodies and almost deprived of a single central defender. Ayling is fifth choice and even he is a doubt. Leeds have gears to go through but in five games they are still to find their peak, grasping for a complete performance. They were closer to one last night and other winnable fixtures lie ahead now, leading up to game 10 at Norwich City next month. In a very different way to Bruce, Bielsa will tell himself to tough this out and stay the course. The only way he knows.
     
    #71
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  12. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    At least we’re not in the bottom three <cheers>
     
    #72
  13. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    I could well be wrong but wasn’t Morris part of the EFL board at one point?
     
    #73
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  14. stonkin

    stonkin Well-Known Member

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  15. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Notes on Rodrigo’s performance against Barcodes Friday:


    His first notable involvement came in the lead-up to Leeds’ opening goal as Rodrigo appeared to intentionally dummy Raphinha’s wicked cross which flew all the way into the bottom corner.

    Whilst he wasn’t given the assist or the goal on the official scoresheet, it was a piece of class from the 30-year-old that demonstrated what he’s capable of, and he continued to show that.

    On the stroke of half-time, Rodrigo may have found himself unlucky to not find the back of the net as he found half-a-yard of space inside the box but his effort was blocked before Junior Firpo blazed over.

    Arguably his moment of the match came when he played a delightful ball into Bamford’s path but the latter was unable to finish - something which Jamie Carragher described as “excellent” on commentary.

    As Leeds were plagued with injury and suspension issues, they needed someone to step up and Rodrigo did just that, especially when Raphinha was substituted.

    Overall, the Spain international recorded the second-most shot creating actions during the contest with seven and only Mateusz Klich made more progressive passes (also seven).

    Another aspect of his performance which stood out was his energy and ability to drive with the ball as Leeds looked to counter-attack quickly whilst in possession.
    In the end, Rodrigo finished up with six progressive carries and also completed two successful dribbles which is a vast improvement to what he had previously recorded at the Whites.

    His link-up with new signing Daniel James was promising too, as he, Firpo and the ex-Manchester United man formed a dangerous trio on the left side and looked a threat whenever they had the opportunity to do so.

    With four key passes, 0.8 expected assists and three passes into the penalty area, Rodrigo inevitably proved his quality in the final third and why Bielsa seems to trust him in a more deeper role, rather than as a number nine
     
    #75
  16. wakeybreakyheart

    wakeybreakyheart Well-Known Member

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    Yes he is a good player and what is the option... Roberts?.
     
    #76
  17. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    The media story above is a bit of a counter to the stuff we all wrote on here last week about Rodrigo, including me. So a deserved response from him, but for me Tyler Roberts has done nothing to deserve to be anywhere near our first team. I know it upsets a few and seems like we pick on Tyler, but every game goes by and yet again nothing done to enhance his reputation.
     
    #77
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  18. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    People who compare Roberts to Rodrigo are wrong to do so. Yes at the moment both are seen as strikers who play at 10 for Leeds.

    Roberts has played for clubs like Oxford, Walsall, Shrewsbury and once for WBA and played 83 times for Leeds. He has played 128 matches in his career and scored 17 times

    Rodrigo has played for Real Madrid, Benfica and Valencia playing 304 matches scoring 78 times.

    In 83 games for Leeds Roberts has scored 5 goals, Rodrigo has played 29 times for Leeds scoring 7 goals. There is no comparison between the players. One is respected all around the world and one is a joke in Wales after his last performance
     
    #78
  19. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member
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    Controversial I know but this will be Bielsas final season with us. I think after the start we’ve had this season he has nowhere to go with us.

    Firstly, I want him to stay, I don’t want him to leave, I’m just looking at it logically from his point of view.

    If we go down he’ll see it as he failed us, if we finish lower than last season he’ll also see it as he failed us. We have spent big our first two seasons back and we’ll have a hell of a job holding on to Meslier, Phillips and Raphinha.

    I feel the only way Bielsa would stay is if he takes us to knocking on the door of a top six which seriously is not going to happen.

    Although I want him to stay and although I’d like nobody better in charge to get us straight back out of the Championship (on a worse case scenario of relegation) I think it is his last season.

    If I was going to be realistic, I think we’ll avoid the drop, I think 10th-14th will be our final position. If I wanted to take some kind of positive out of life after Bielsa it would be are we ready to start signing the more flamboyant players, would it be time to start thinking of a fresh approach?

    All most of us ask is to improve the squad season upon season but get a signing wrong and we’re in a bit of bother. Then I look at players like Roberts and I know he wouldn’t make any other PL starting 16. I look at how long we’ve been weak in CM and I get frustrated it’s not been fixed in over three seasons.
     
    #79
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
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  20. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Ristac has a point and my own view is that if things dont pick up by Xmas Bielsa will leave. Bielsa will feel he has failed and isnt able to turn it around and so wants the club to bring someone else in to save the season.

    The problem with the above is that a new manager will need cash in the window because he wont like Ayling, Dallas, Roberts or anyone Bielsa has made over achievers. I do however feel that Bielsa will stop the rot and we will be fine.

    Bielsa is part of a project, a project that aims for 2 years of prem football followed by major investment in year 3 both on and of the pitch. This is the plan and all the players are part of it too. Year 3 is when the chase for Europe happens so if Bielsa keeps us in the prem I feel he will be happy as hes a realist and understands the difference in wealth if the top 4 and the rest. He mentioned Leicesters trajectory and Radz has said the same that its the right way to go. Bielsa also said that Leicester played Man City last week and the difference between the sides was enormous. City played the foxes off the park. We can already see the top 4 moving away from the rest in the table.
     
    #80

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