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Boris...

  • should completely lock us down immediately and fook up all our Christmas'

    Votes: 3 12.5%

  • let the bodies stack high

    Votes: 13 54.2%

  • lock us down from the 29th to fook up Treble's plans

    Votes: 8 33.3%
  • Total voters
    24
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There's a well known homeless guy in Newcastle who wouldn't thank you for putting a roof over his head. He's become so used to his way of life he doesn't want to change it and becomes quite offended if folk try and pressure him into doing so. He's actually choosing to live like he is and he seems happy enough.
 
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brb said:
I think there is different angles regarding the homeless, I'm hastening to say, my view was coming from the single male, who has abused himself for which there can be many reasons. I wasn't meaning families and the lack of social housing connected to that.
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The subject of homelessness is so complex it’s hard to see where to begin fixing it.

Getting drugs off the streets.
Creating opportunities for young folk.
Actual fit for purpose rehabilitation programmes.
Make obtaining credit more difficult.
Real punishment for committing crime.
Better mental health treatment.

What do other countries do? I always think of Japan and Scandinavian countries as the ones who seem to get it right.
 
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Saff said:
There's a well known homeless guy in Newcastle who wouldn't thank you for putting a roof over his head. He's become so used to his way of life he doesn't want to change it and becomes quite offended if folk try and pressure him into doing so. He's actually choosing to live like he is and he seems happy enough.
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There's an old story I told on here once before Saff, I know it's going slightly array, but there's a place called Sassi di Matera, in southern Italy, it's famous and I assume a world heritage site, because up until the 1950's people still lived in it's caves. Anyway to cut a very long story short, when they were forced out of the caves into purpose built tower blocks, they couldn't adapt. The moral of the point being, people can be accustomed to a situation, that they then struggle to ever adapt from, even those who try, come with many issues for the state to deal with.
 
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First things to do imo are
a ) changing the right to buy legislation to ensure that Social housing if sold generates enough to enable the provider to build / purchase an equivalent property .
b ) invest in more social housing .
c ) invest in services to intervene to attempt to stop people in crisis becoming homeless in first place and if they do continue to work with them as the shorter the period on the streets the easier it is to move back into accommodation .
 
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Tel said:
The subject of homelessness is so complex it’s hard to see where to begin fixing it.

Getting drugs off the streets.
Creating opportunities for young folk.
Actual fit for purpose rehabilitation programmes.
Make obtaining credit more difficult.
Real punishment for committing crime.
Better mental health treatment.

What do other countries do? I always think of Japan and Scandinavian countries as the ones who seem to get it right.
Click to expand...

My daughter works as a mental health/LD nurse in a secure unit in Middlesbrough, and as a community outreach nurse in North Yorkshire and Teeside. There are two almost overwhelming things she and her teams have faced since the pandemic: firstly that the low level, secure units where many autistic, emotionally volitile should be for their own good are partly full of patients evading the criminal justice system, who should be in real prisons and more secure units; and secondly, those patients in the community in social housing are not getting one-tenth of the support they need as nurses and carers like my daughter have either been dragged back into the secure unit wards due to Covid restrictions, or have themselves been isolating or sick with Covid.

In short, the 'Joined-up' system, which was struggling before Covid, is now utterly broken, without any pretence that those mentally ill people in the community with assisted accommodation are getting the care and support they need.
 
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Libby said:
I'm not saying that's everyone btw, but my experience in Soton is that the majority are in the position because of decisions they've made.

As I alluded too it may well be different since covid like. But most people here were sound with people becoming homeless as we had to lockdown iirc.
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Ive not read anyone putting it down 2 covid even though there will be a rise in numbers during this period so obviously some aint doing as well has tory donors did during the great British fake pandemic robbery
 
Tel said:
The subject of homelessness is so complex it’s hard to see where to begin fixing it.

Getting drugs off the streets.
Creating opportunities for young folk.
Actual fit for purpose rehabilitation programmes.
Make obtaining credit more difficult.
Real punishment for committing crime.
Better mental health treatment.

What do other countries do? I always think of Japan and Scandinavian countries as the ones who seem to get it right.
Click to expand...

Absolutely Tel. There's a reason I don't gamble, nor do drugs and generally try to limit drinking to social events, because I've seen the destruction it can do. The ability to recognise ones own weaknesses, and create a prevention is far eaiser than creating a cure. That's not a sly dig at people who do all those things, it's just saying, some people shouldn't being doing those things because they are easily prone to addiction.
 
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Saff said:
There's a well known homeless guy in Newcastle who wouldn't thank you for putting a roof over his head. He's become so used to his way of life he doesn't want to change it and becomes quite offended if folk try and pressure him into doing so. He's actually choosing to live like he is and he seems happy enough.
Click to expand...

Free from the shackles of owning anything.
....keeping **** simple init
 
There's a nature/nurture thing as well at the core of many addiction issues: are some people prone to addiction because of their mental health issues, or are they more prone to mental health issues because of their addictions? There is huge medical evidence, for instance, that regular cannabis smoking from early teens will result in schizophrenia and paranoia (see Sisu as an example), but smoking cannabis is socially acceptable, and indeed subject to peer-group pressure in many segments of society, if though illegal. And it's documented how much alcohol has blighted communities for generations.

But as we live in a society that is happy to tax cigarettes and then treat the ensuing cancers at great expense to the NHS, are we a bit hypocritical telling an alcoholic, homeless, mentally ill vagrant that they brought it on themselves?
 
Tel said:
What do other countries do? I always think of Japan and Scandinavian countries as the ones who seem to get it right.
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Yeah. Instilling a creepy obsession with schoolgirls and women being ****ed by eels into our populace is the key to ending homlessness! Who knew!
:p
Joking of course
 
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Johnny Seven One Man Army said:
There's a nature/nurture thing as well at the core of many addiction issues: are some people prone to addiction because of their mental health issues, or are they more prone to mental health issues because of their addictions? There is huge medical evidence, for instance, that regular cannabis smoking from early teens will result in schizophrenia and paranoia (see Sisu as an example), but smoking cannabis is socially acceptable, and indeed subject to peer-group pressure in many segments of society, if though illegal. And it's documented how much alcohol has blighted communities for generations.

But as we live in a society that is happy to tax cigarettes and then treat the ensuing cancers at great expense to the NHS, are we a bit hypocritical telling an alcoholic, homeless, mentally ill vagrant that they brought it on themselves?
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I actually agree with a lot of that. The problem with addiction - well life in general really but addiction especially - is that you can't help somebody who doesn't want to help themself. Are we really going to continue to throw thousands of pounds at somebody who has zero interest in trying to get clean/improve their life? How many times do you house them and them **** it up before enough is enough, 5? 10?

Your point about addiction leading to a lot of this is a fair one but while it's a contributory factor it doesn't excuse poor behaviour and you're still responsible for your actions. Which is why saying "I was drunk" in court won't prevent you being convicted of an offence.

Look at my situation; kicked out at 16 and straight into a hostel. Kicked out of that 5 months later for breaching visitor rules and having drug paraphernalia on the property. 6 months homeless and then into another hostel just after my 17th birthday. There for 8 months and then kicked out for alcohol/drug induced noise complaints (people didn't like hearing happy hardcore at 4am on a Tuesday :biggrin: ).

Are you seriously suggesting that after all of that I wasn't at fault for the situation I found myself in? Yeah you could argue that placing a 16 year old in a hostel with ex addicts and alcoholics increases the chances of my downfall accelerating, but ultimately I behaved poorly and with that came consequences.


As an aside, the drug support networks are largely archaic in this country with us being miles behind other nations. But that's a separate if not completely unrelated debate.
 
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Libby said:
(people didn't like hearing happy hardcore at 4am on a Tuesday :biggrin: ).
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People, at least people who dont walk around with knives doing lots of drugs, dont like hearing Happy Hardcore at ANY time of the day Libs.
I judge you for this far more than I do your drug issues Libby.
I would suggest this as a root cause of your misspent youth.
:p
 
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Bodinki said:
People, at least people who dont walk around with knives doing lots of drugs, dont like hearing Happy Hardcore at ANY time of the day Libs.
I judge you for this far more than I do your drug issues Libby.
I would suggest this as a root cause of your misspent youth.
:p
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Haha if hardcore was still the prominent underground music then this country would have far fewer social problems imo.

Hardcore sends out a brilliant message; that everyone should all get ****ed up together and get along. Whereas grime sends out the message that everyone should shot food and stab each other :biggrin:


But yeah, it's awful really lol. Though ecstasy says otherwise iirc.
 
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Libby said:
Haha if hardcore was still the prominent underground music then this country would have far fewer social problems imo.

Hardcore sends out a brilliant message; that everyone should all get ****ed up together and get along. Whereas grime sends out the message that everyone should shot food and stab each other :biggrin:


But yeah, it's awful really lol. Though ecstasy says otherwise iirc.
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Grime and Hardcore are probably the two genres of music I despise the most.
I went to a very rough school, and most of the people who were in to hardcore ended up in prison, or with drug problems, or both. On top of that its a mess of noise with little artistic merit.
Grime is the 21st century equivalent, but is far more heinous imo.
 
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Libby said:
I actually agree with a lot of that. The problem with addiction - well life in general really but addiction especially - is that you can't help somebody who doesn't want to help themself. Are we really going to continue to throw thousands of pounds at somebody who has zero interest in trying to get clean/improve their life? How many times do you house them and them **** it up before enough is enough, 5? 10?

Your point about addiction leading to a lot of this is a fair one but while it's a contributory factor it doesn't excuse poor behaviour and you're still responsible for your actions. Which is why saying "I was drunk" in court won't prevent you being convicted of an offence.

Look at my situation; kicked out at 16 and straight into a hostel. Kicked out of that 5 months later for breaching visitor rules and having drug paraphernalia on the property. 6 months homeless and then into another hostel just after my 17th birthday. There for 8 months and then kicked out for alcohol/drug induced noise complaints (people didn't like hearing happy hardcore at 4am on a Tuesday :biggrin: ).

Are you seriously suggesting that after all of that I wasn't at fault for the situation I found myself in? Yeah you could argue that placing a 16 year old in a hostel with ex addicts and alcoholics increases the chances of my downfall accelerating, but ultimately I behaved poorly and with that came consequences.


As an aside, the drug support networks are largely archaic in this country with us being miles behind other nations. But that's a separate if not completely unrelated debate.
Click to expand...

:emoticon-0148-yes:
 
Libby said:
I'm not saying that's everyone btw, but my experience in Soton is that the majority are in the position because of decisions they've made.

As I alluded too it may well be different since covid like. But most people here were sound with people becoming homeless as we had to lockdown iirc.
Click to expand...


People don’t decide to be addicts.
 
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Coming to shores near you....be careful what you wish for I say.

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Libby said:
Not sure I said they did?
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You said most people on the streets are there because of poor decisions they have made. Which is true, up to a point. But most also have addiction or mental health issues, and I’m just pointing out that addiction is not a choice.

If people **** up, I think they deserve a second chance, and some help to get back on their feet. Not an indefinite number of chances, there may come a time when society understandably gives up on them.

But let’s have it right. While the people sleeping rough have mostly contributed to their own condition, the fact that there’s so many of them does not reflect on well on what we have become as a society. We used to look after people in this country; we used to look after each other. Something has changed.
 
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