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Off Topic Hamilton vs Verstappen

Discussion in 'Newcastle United' started by cronemeister, Jul 19, 2021.

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Who was at fault?

  1. Max - he cut across Hamilton who had the inside line at Copse

    3 vote(s)
    23.1%
  2. Lewis - wasn't far enough over at the apex so should have backed off

    2 vote(s)
    15.4%
  3. Both are culpable but it was a first lap racing incident

    8 vote(s)
    61.5%
  1. cronemeister

    cronemeister Well-Known Member

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    Anyone watch the British GP yesterday? Put all of your thoughts/feelings towards either driver (both as a driver/person) to one side and judge this purely on the action on track.

    For me it's a first lap racing incident. Both drivers probably should have done "something" differently but at 200mph it's easier said than done. Christian Horners comments both during the race (during the red flag period) and afterwards are ****ing disgusting in my opinion. Comes across as very petty and bitter. Yes he's protecting his driver etc but it was a racing incident which thankfully Max walked away from, albeit somewhat gingerly. You don't overtake at Copse....**** me, is that what Formula 1 has come to? It's a race track for ****s sake, you can (and should be able to) overtake anywhere on the track, within track limits of course! Hamilton was alongside Max, his front wheel was at least level with the middle of Max's car as they approached the corner. Max has turned into the corner leaving Hamilton with nowhere to go at 200mph. If anybody is at fault it's Max but that's the kind of racing I want to see, whether it be on the first lap or the last lap! Absolute **** house of a decision to give him a 10sec penalty but hell of a drive to recover from it and take maximum points.

    Next race in Hungary should be interesting :-D
     
    #1
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  2. QWOP

    QWOP Well-Known Member

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    Someone does to Max what he does to everyone else. Penalty was the right call but its about time it got properly racey between them. Perhaps max will think twice before he thinks he can do what he likes on track
     
    #2
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  3. cronemeister

    cronemeister Well-Known Member

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    Bang on mate, Horner would have had a totally different view if it had been the other way around. He tried the same move a couple corners earlier and Hamilton backed out and took the previous corner wider than Max to square the corner up and give him a better run down the straight. Max has more than earned his place at the front of the grid, equally though Hamilton has more than earned the right to make a pass like that. If he'd come from a long way back and put a wheel up the inside under braking as Max was turning in then fair do's but the fact is he was more than level and had the inside line and the corner was his and Max turned in expecting Hamilton to yield....which he was never going to do. The debate will rumble on probably until and beyond the next race even. I'm pleased it's happened if I'm honest as if nothing else Max knows he's in a fight now and he's not gonna be able to get away with pulling **** like that week in week out. If you play with feathers you're gonna get your arse tickled !!!
     
    #3
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  4. QWOP

    QWOP Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. The only reason there hasn't been any accidents between them so far is because hamilton has been backing out. Hungary is going to be a tasty race and I cannot wait. Don't think Max has the mental fortitude to take on hamilton over the course of a season and he may unravel towards the end but for Hungary, there will be fireworks!
     
    #4
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  5. Dr Nickilas Van Helsing

    Dr Nickilas Van Helsing Well-Known Member

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    Hamilton is a little prick so without seeing the incident I'll go with blaming him
     
    #5
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  6. StevesToon

    StevesToon Active Member

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    I was there. It was a fantastic day.

    I'm with you that I thought it was a racing incident. Hamilton has been playing the percentages since Rosberg beat him that year doing the same. Verstappen has started playing on this with the knowledge that Hamilton will yield. Hopefully those days are gone and if he is so aggressive going forward he will know what happens.
     
    #6
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  7. StevesToon

    StevesToon Active Member

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    As for Horner he was a little embarrassing. He absolutely went for it to try to maximise the penalty then criticised Toto for doing less.

    I am a bit biased mind. But I though the penalties in the last race were all racing incidents as well. I think the drivers need to be savvy enough to be on the right side of these things when they happen.
     
    #7
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  8. cronemeister

    cronemeister Well-Known Member

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    Totally embarrassing mate, absolutely slapped it on with his comments. It makes no difference whether or not it happened at one of the fastest corners on the circuit, of which I don't really think this is (Eau Rouge at Spa is probably way faster), or the slowest on the circuit (Lowes hairpin springs to mind), the outcome should not determine what action is taken, it's whether or not what triggered it is worthy of penalty. Max hasn't done himself any favours with his post race comments about Hamilton celebrating his victory. I really like Max but he needs to ****ing check himself sometimes like.

    1. It was the British GP and Hamilton won so of course he's gonna ****ing celebrate it
    2. He drove his arse off for the last 10-12 laps, outpacing LeClerc by an average of a second a lap to overtake him with 2 laps remaining, that in itself is worthy of celebrating.
    3. In Hamilton's eyes Max got what he deserved.

    Everybody on the Red Bull side of the fence see's it there way, what speaks volumes for me is that it's not just everybody on the Mercedes side of the fence who think differently....pretty much everybody does in that it was a racing incident. As to whether or not a penalty was right or wrong, there are arguments for both but for me it was complete bollocks.

    Hopefully that will have rattled Max and we can continue to have some good close wheel to wheel combat for the remainder of the season. Max is very hot headed and I think this might actually get to him and he will be wanting to put one over Lewis at the first opportunity. Lewis has been there many times before so I think he will be very wise to anything that Max tries, the race director and stewards will certainly be mindful of any future antics and will take what happened at the weekend just gone into consideration. They shouldn't but the seed has been sown now.
     
    #8
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  9. Judge Death

    Judge Death Well-Known Member

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    Hamilton's fault in this instance for me - Verstappen was in front and leading so he had the racing line and was actually heading to the apex as he should've been, Hamilton was inside him and had actually missed the apex so was heading straight on at the moment he went into Verstappen

    Ultimately, a "heat of the moment" incident, error by Hamilton but not deliberate as a lot of people seem to be suggesting
     
    #9
  10. Albert's Chip Shop

    Albert's Chip Shop Top Grafter
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    they are both a little beely.
    if you dish it out you should be comfortable taking it.
     
    #10
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  11. Dr Nickilas Van Helsing

    Dr Nickilas Van Helsing Well-Known Member

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    Just seen it yeah Hamilton took him out on purpose
     
    #11
  12. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    100% racing incident. Max to blame if anything but just a situation where it required a driver to yield and neither wanted to, both being able to justify reasons for not doing so. Love the fact that Hamilton took penalty and still won. I don't like the personality of the bloke, but he is some driver.

    Regardless the rules are the rules and I agree with Toto in that if the front axle is over the middle of the car on the outside it's your corner. That is what the rules state regardless of which corner it is on the racing calendar (Horner kept banging on about that as if its relevant). Unless you have eyesight problems, Hamilton was well up the inside at the corner. So Max unfortunately had to yield more room or brake. Its Max though, this is how he drives, super aggressive (like Hamilton was when he was young) and he banks on the other guy yielding. He's got a nasty shock because Hamilton hasn't. Hamilton has always yielded so far to stop incidents, but then he's always had the better car underneath him so hasn't had to push it. Now he's on the back foot car wise he's had to be more aggressive. If either yielded it doesn't happen but Max knows he's there and turned in anyway assuming Hamilton would have given him the corner (like he does at the start of every race nearly!).

    I'd love to think Max will learn from it but its highly unlikely. Its not his first rodeo as Kimi and Vettel amongst others will testify to. Horner etc are speaking purely from feeling the pressure of Hamilton pulling close in the championship with the gap closing car wise and other circuits where Hamilton is traditionally red hot. Pretty pathetic and embarrassing. It was akin to surrounding a referee. Toto responded as he would have to because he has to defend driver and team.

    Good for the championship though. Gloves are off and I think we will see some fun and games. I'm interested to see how Max takes this because he's been ice cool so far because he knows his car is better. To have the pressure put on, and now the unknown of Hamilton now going wheel to wheel, I wonder if he might crack?
     
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  13. cronemeister

    cronemeister Well-Known Member

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    Exactly....that's why I'm so pleased it happened, nobody likes to see cars off the track and even more so when it's a high speed crash like the one yesterday. Both drivers have driven the wheels off their cars in the last 5 or 6 races with the Merc's having to play catch up, particular at the more twisty street circuits. I firmly believe their longer wheel based car just does not work well around those tracks but their aero set up being vastly different to Red Bulls is also a contributing factor. Adrian Newey is still a ****ing genius in my eyes, whether or not their "bendy" rear wing is aiding them is still up for debate but you'd think it would have been cracked down on by now if it was. Hungary will be very interesting, both drivers will be wanting to go into the mid-season break leading the championship but I honestly think Max will now have second thoughts about trying to out manoeuvre/outbrake Lewis for the forseeable future. It also puts Lewis in a very strong position in being able to position his car in places where Max would otherwise have probably just held his ground in the hope of the other driver yielding....it could very well be a pivotal moment in deciding the destination of this years title !

    What did everyone make of the new format with the sprint race? I quite enjoyed it, wasn't quite sure how it was gonna pan out but it mixed it up a bit and I'd be happy to see it more often where the occasion allows for it. I don't think we saw a massively different grid to what we would have otherwise saw. Perez will probably disagree with that and Alonso was probably a few places further up than he would have otherwise been. It's a no-brainer for the midfield as it gives them a chance of starting on a Sunday nearer the front of the grid whilst also introducing that element of fear into the guys challenging for the top honours.
     
    #13
  14. jimileysbaldhead

    jimileysbaldhead Well-Known Member

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    I think they should race blindfolded, that would make it watchable.
     
    #14
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  15. Dr Nickilas Van Helsing

    Dr Nickilas Van Helsing Well-Known Member

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    It's the only sport that's better on the radio
     
    #15
  16. jimileysbaldhead

    jimileysbaldhead Well-Known Member

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    It's a toss up between formula one and radio for deaf people which is the most pointless.
     
    #16
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  17. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    I like it from the point of view of the rear and midfield cars have incentive to go for it. I’m unsure long term how it will work out in terms of it could become a procession once there have been a few crashes and people get scared of wrecking the main race. I couldn’t say it detracted anything from the weekend, but I’m not sure how much it will add.
     
    #17
  18. StevesToon

    StevesToon Active Member

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    Good analysis here -

    When you see the way Verstappen turns the wheel into Hamilton it actually makes me think it's his fault. Aggression with the presumption that the other driver will back out. And previously in the lap wheel banging to get a better line into the corner, that's not clever.If Hamilton had not swerved away when he did this the race would have been over for one of both of them even earlier.
     
    #18
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  19. cronemeister

    cronemeister Well-Known Member

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    Lewis is virtually level with Max here just before the corner. If you watch the onboard footage Max has a cheeky little dink to the right trying to call hamilton's bluff I think in the hope that he yields....which he doesn't. Max then just turns in anyways.....it's his own ****ing fault in my opinion. I really like Max and I do think he's a future world champion but he's still a bit reckless despite having the faster car. He would have most probably won the race anyways even losing the position on the first lap so this was all a bit silly, desperate and attempt to try and be billy big bollocks and it backfired. HA !!

    upload_2021-7-20_9-6-51.png
     
    #19
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  20. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Great pic that as it clearly shows Hamilton's front axle is not just at the mid point but well past. The rules are there for a reason.

    The bumping of Hamiltons wheels and dip in towards him has all been part of recent history between the two. Max constantly tries to intimidate with aggressive driving. Lets be honest, Hamilton has been like this when younger. Schumacher had it. Senna did. The best generally are both fearless and ultra aggressive. So while I don't think there is anything wrong with Max trying to intimidate him, you live by the sword and all that. You can't go chucking your toys out when someone stands up to your bullying tactics, believing they endangered you. Its stupid logic from Max and I dare say Hamilton will be secretly happy he has rattled his cage.

    Its all good for the fans though.
     
    #20

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