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Off Topic Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by ChilcoSaint, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace
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    What’s the point? If elected, Starmer will completely fail to reverse most of the decline Britain has suffered under the Tories, apart from a bit of tinkering around the edges. He won’t undertake the sweeping social reforms that we desperately need, and certainly won’t even glance at electoral reform. What steps will he take to HALT climate change?

    The real problem we are faced with is Johnson’s increasing drive towards authoritarianism. How much of that will Labour ever reverse?
     
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  2. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

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    Personally think you are wrong. There were plenty of parties to oppose brexit and it was rightly know if you were PRO brexit you went conservatives. The Tories won a majority and a load of red districts that never flipped blue did.

    Whilst you may understand brexit will affect the poor the most, i don't think they will understand it. Even now the country is going to crap but lets face it, whilst the sun and the daily mail make it out that it's a different problem, they won't understand it to be a brexit problem.

    Unfortunately, if the tories are ever to be opposed, it's not moving more to the left because that allows the tories to move more right as they don't need to pander to the centrists as much. It will be when all these fractured left parties come together or with labour going more centre.
     
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  3. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace
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    I wasn't arguing that Labour should move further to the left, but to stand on some basic principles and show some leadership, rather than be led by what the electorate think is right because they have read it in the Sun or the Mail.
     
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  4. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    #29964
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  5. saintrichie123

    saintrichie123 Well-Known Member

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  6. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    I see a new name is picking up support for the MPs being shown with the Union Jack behind them - flag shaggers.
    I think that works.
     
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  7. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace
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    F90C441B-BE0C-411D-B364-1D0AD8EFAAC6.jpeg
     
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  8. Ian Thumwood

    Ian Thumwood Well-Known Member

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    Since the SNP has garnered so much support over recent years to become a very credible opposition party, it is funny how this has affected the popularity of the Union Jack. It is noticeable how prevalent the cross of St George has become and you will find it hard to discover a more obvious example of this than at England football matches. It is rather funny that the remark made by Naga Munchetty has become so provocative in the news over the last week as this has been a massive over-reaction.

    However, I think this dispute hides a fundamental truth that this flag is totally obsolete. I think this flag now only has historic value. The saltire no longer feels that it properly belongs to a national flag and attempts by "right on" newspapers like The Guardian to devise a replacement of the Union flag with the blue replaced by black to reflect the multi-cultural nature of the country does not answer the problem in the least. I am not sure how others feel on here but the rise in popularity and credibility of Scottish nationalism now feels like that there is an element of the Union Jack that does not want to be there and, in addition,it is something that a large proportion of English people now resent. Personally, I would like to see it removed from our "national flag," The cross of St George is a christian symbol which is hardly appropriate in a country where the 2nd most popular religion is Muslim and this is before you encounter the issue that it's origins stem from Eleanor of Aquitaine's marriage to the Plantagenet king Henry II. (i,e, It is more French than "English.") The St Patrick saltire is similarly Christian although it has unfortunate connections with the unpleasant Unionist elements of Irish politics. Wales, as a principality and not a country, is not represented at all. I wonder if last week's census will make it more appropriate for a future national flag to incorporate a crescent. We must be reaching the point where this is a credible argument.

    I feel that the loyalty to flags is strangely pathetic and really only something that is of historical value. Most flags are comparatively modern and date from 19th and 20th century despite the symbolism being something that has it's origins in medieval history. I believe the Danish flag is actually the world's oldest and is early medieval in origin. The Union Jack was not created until 1801 and it's antecedents only go back as far as King James I. It is therefore well overdue for replacement .

    I am inclined to agree with the assessment that some politicians adherence to the Union Jack is now reaching a point where it is unintentionally comic. It is strange that the Scottish saltire never gets questioned on the BBC but I would expect that this is largely due to Nicola Sturgeon's excellent liberal credentials. I don't like the fact that Scottish nationalists are hostile to the English who have been extremely patient with our neighbours north of the border and ,like the Irish unionists, it does have unpleasant overtones which are as repellent as those from the far right who adopt that flag of St George. I think have passed the point where the Union Jack has any value beyond comedy and must consider it something which no longer has the affection enjoyed by the Scottish saltire, the cross of St George and indeed the flag of the European Union. It is totally obsolete.
     
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  9. tiggermaster

    tiggermaster Well-Known Member

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    As we live on an island off of mainland Europe and this government seem ever willing to break international law. Do we qualify for the Skull an Crossbones?
     
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  10. saintrichie123

    saintrichie123 Well-Known Member

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  11. AberdeenSaint

    AberdeenSaint Well-Known Member

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    A crescent ? - our Jewish community would be delighted with that. Actually, rather than a crescent, I`d prefer a ball with a halo on top, a tree and two squigly blue lines.
     
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  12. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

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    By which he means no punishment at all.
     
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  13. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

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    All truly great and honest leaders love their national flag.


    please log in to view this image
     
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  14. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Also known as the sea ...<laugh>
     
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    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
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  15. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

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    All fascist regimes love their flags.

    please log in to view this image
     
    #29975
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  16. SaintStu

    SaintStu Well-Known Member

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    I could live with the politicians flag waving if I thought it was genuine patriotism and not some self-interested point scoring and PR stunt.
    Lockdown has shown how important the local area is rather than the national, and Brexit has shown that it was not about independence but centralizing more power in Whitehall and all the money making opportunities that came with that (for the few).
    Humans do in general need to feel connected to something, it starts with family, but can be a football team, a country, or even a protest movement. It is how that need is exploited is the issue.
     
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  17. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    I think you should send this to the editors of the Mail, Express, Telegraph and Sun, for publication.
    I would love to see the responses to the inclusion of a crescent on the flag.
    I can imagine comments such as “Who the **** does he think we are? Portsmouth supporters?”
     
    #29977
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  18. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    If we’re going heraldic, we should have a pie on the National flag; with halal and vegan options, of course.
     
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  19. AberdeenSaint

    AberdeenSaint Well-Known Member

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    I understand they represent the double tide phenomenon - but I was originally told they represent the Itchen and Test. So I`ve sat on the fence ever since !
     
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  20. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    It would appear that the injuries suffered by the police in Bristol may have been exaggerated.
    The report also has evidence that this exaggeration has occurred before, but hey, the headlines have been written and the false impression has been given, allowing the government to press forward with it’s desire to stop our right to protest, whilst gaining support from the media.

    https://freedomnews.org.uk/bristol-...x5Lpmfxuik_-HBQzPntL8pmRb7E1oitnv2t53zRY1TM6g
     
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