Agreed There isn't a problem as far as I can see. Some people seem to want to make one out of it it seems.
I've never called anyone a plastic or armchair fan. Or dismissed anyone's views - I might disagree, but that's my entitlement to do so. What I'm saying is that it's not a problem that we have different views. That is after all what a discussion forum is all about - no?
Hot Head You have encapsulated all that is wrong with Arsenal in a nutshell. Some on here can see it, some can't and some just plain won't. Amazing.
Toughie, they are wearing Wenger coloured glasses, I smashed mine last season. Every pundit in the world cannot be wrong when they identify the same flaws in our team year in year out but nothing changes. We need to keep the banter on the board, thats the fun part of being on here, I can admit to attacking people sometimes personally, but it all depends on if I find something they wrote offensive, usually I try to be reasonable, but I come out guns blazing when people disrespect me.
Piskie and Goonercymraeg are the biggest apologists on this board. Wenger probably pays them a few quid to post here.
Thats not fair - they are clearly loyal in the extreme. I like to think I was too - but have seen the light over the last couple of years. The issues with Wenger, the Board, the playing staff, the inability to see or fix the problems goes on and on and on.... Change has got to come.
I'm loyal to my club. But there's no misplaced loyalty to anyone within it. I'm a pragmatist, what ever works best - is best. Currently we've got problems in defence that need addressing, results have been disappointing, but it's a million miles from a crisis. If you look at the situation with a clear head, you'll see that the problems are not insurmountable. I'm not trying to dismiss the opinions of those who want a change of management. I just don't agree with them, as don't believe that sacking Wenger or the board will help at all. In fact, I think it would actually plunge our club into a rudderless crisis. There are no instant fixes in football, it takes time, effort and a cool head to make effective change and turn around our fortunes. I think those who believe that suddenly ridding the club of Wenger or the board will do this, are badly mistaken. In summary, there may be aspects to Wenger that I find frustrating, but he is still the best man for the job.
Firstly, I find it pretty amazing how seriously people take Football. I mean...it's only a game!! Some people seem to live it as if their lives depended on it. Secondly, there are problems that need addressing at the club. I think the issue here is split between those who still hope Wenger will fix them, and those who believe he won't, but someone else would. I started in the first camp, but I'm slowly resigning myself to the second.
I hear you Bonstar - I've thought the same. But ultimately, looking at the situation as a whole, I still think Wenger is the best man to get us out of this situation. I guess we'll have to see if he can do it this season, if we end up finishing 6th or worse, then I think his position can legitimately be called into question. If and until then, he's got my support.
There are some people on this board who want to use this split to dive a wedge between Arsenal fans. We've already flushed out a couple, who were masquerading as Arsenal fans, but in reality were just wums. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with each other about how we think we can address our problems. But we need to be vigilant as Arsenal fans that others don't use it to stir up **** between genuine fans.
Bill Shankly quipped 'Some people believe football is a matter of life and death. I'm very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that.'
PIKSIE - what makes you confident that Wenger can fix the problems ? I have zero confidence at this point although my preferred option would be for him to stay and fix it. If you look over the years Wenger's existence with us has been one of stubbornness and a staunch refusal to admit anything is wrong. 1) The ridiculous number of red cards we got under Wenger during his first 10 years, he did nothing it seems to sort that out. 2) No Plan B, Wenger took lots of criticism to not having a plan B before finally developing one ever so briefly (long ball to Adebayor) then after that no Plan B again. 3) Soft Underbelly - since Vieira left we have been a soft touch, this is something Wenger has refused to address. 5) Defensively crap - not had a proper back five since the Invincibles. He hasn't addressed these problems and we've had them for years.
I've been a Spurs fan since I was five (50 years!) but I think Wenger is the best coach in the Premier League and possibly in the world. But in some ways I think that is the problem. I have a feeling that the current crop of Arsenal players are not actually that good (definitely inferior man for man to the Spurs and Liverpool squads this season) but they can still look very good because of the way they are coached and the system that is being played. But somehow Wenger doesn't take this into account when signing players so he misses opportunities to sign better players. This doesn't normally matter because they've been plenty good enough for top four, but now the best four or five have left or are injured, the system has started to break down and the rest are losing confidence. This means that sacking Wenger will definitely make things worse short term - you need to sign some better players first.
Wengers biggest problem is his stubborness. He remains a footballing genius in my eyes but his refusal to accept our goalkeeping and defensive frailties in recent seasons is what's cost us at least 2 league titles. We are regressing but not as much as some of the doom mongers in here would have us believe, the fact is that finance now rules the day and the bar has been raised so high the first 3 places are sewn up before a ball is kicked. And yes I do include Man Utd in that because having bought more £20m+ players than anyone for a period 3/4/5 years ago, they also got sucked in by Rooneys 'pay me £260k a week or transfer me' demands last year. The rest are playing for 4th spot only, simple as IMO.....
Thats not true, we had a period in 2008 where our defence of Sagna, Gallas, Toure, Clichy/Gibbs was solid. We went on a 21 game unbeaten streak if i remember rightly.
Because I think 1) he spots players with massive unseen potential and turns them into greats (eg Viera, Fabregas, Henry) 2) he gets the very best out of players I thought were average or worse when they were signed (eg Sagna, Clichy, Djourou, Walcott and many others) 3) the system is simple and pleasant to watch It is one of my bugbears about football managers that most can do none of the above - they simply want to spend money signing a group of players that they like and wash their hands of them when things go wrong.
I think Wenger is great at spotting and developing talent, his record speaks for itself. I think where we have struggled over the last few years is that we've not been able to match the transfer and wages that City, Utd and Chelsea are willing to offer. For example, Chris Smalling was all ready to sign for Arsenal, then Utd gazumped our offer with better wages and Smalling decided to join Utd instead. This is a problem that is particular to the modern game, not a fault of Wenger's. I've no doubt that we could have gone down the same route as the big spenders if we had chosen to, buying players for £30m and paying them £150k per week, We have billionaire shareholders, they have the cash to invest. But we would have ended up either bankrupt when the rich boys got bored or wanted their returns or we would be about to fall foul of the FPP rules. Six years without a trophy seems like a long time, especially when we were regularly winning things since 97 onwards. But in the grand scheme of things, this is merely a blip.
Toure was already on the slippery slide in 08 and Clichy was poor ever since that abysmal game in Birmingham when he gave away the penalty - he never recovered - that was 07 wasn't it ?? Toure was crap when he came back from the ACON and was poor since.
