Quinns statement of intent.

I said a week or two ago, that it was time for Quinn and Short to put up or shut up over Bruce. They had to come out in this uncertain period and say they back their man or sack their man.

Well, we got the answer yesterday and I'd say it was an unequivocal support for the manager. Newspaper talk today in interviews with Niall, suggest a good relationship between owner and manager and even more money in January, so sacking the manager is not on the agenda it would seem.

So, given that I believe he is safe until a minimum of the end of this campaign, what do I do? I'll tell you.

Rather than continue swimming up stream, its time to concentrate on helping the team bounce back. If Ellis and Niall have backed the manager, all we can do is support that. Don't get me wrong, I still have massive reservations about Bruce but arguing every day about them won't change things and will be pretty unpleasant for everyone.

So, let's forget the managers position and look towards the next 6 or so games and see what happens. If we start to climb the table all will be well. However, results will dictate Bruces future now and all we can do is support the club.

FTM

 

Well said, I am worried but the only thing we can do is get behind the lads and support them.

 

Agent Bruce lives on.

 

This talk of prepairing for the financial fair play rules....

If that is what we are doing by selling the likes of Bent and bringing in loanees to replace our 20+ goalscorer in a pre-emptive attempt to comply with the new rules then I believe they have implemented the wrong strategy, right from the top down.

Think about it... These last few seasons were an opportunity to put in position a squad that could easily be expected to finish in the top 10 every season, because apparently we have an owner with money to spend.

Instead, we have witnessed wholesale cuts to the extent that we now have a relegation squad. As a club, we are teetering upon the edge of returning to exactly where we came from before Sir Niall improved the clubs general standing, which is the championship.

Why didn't they fight like tooth and nail to spend money and bring in a core of quality whilst they had the chance? Then and only then should they of started the cull as at that point every other team would be in the same boat in terms of balancing the books and therefore agents will no longer be able to extract better terms from clubs with lower revenue streams?

Look at it another way... Would you rather we spent money finished 5th in the league and didn't qualify for Europe due to non-compliance of the financial rules, or didn't spend money and finished 17th? Or worse still, relegation? Which one would you prefer as a supporter of SAFC?

I'm afraid that the decision makers have completely missed a golden opportunity we had to entrench this club in the top 10.

 

you talk about Bent like we booted him out of the door. The ****er left cos of greed.

"core of quality" - what that then exactly, who, of our current squad, would you kick out and who do you get in? Quinn and Bruce could only bring in players that wanted to play for us. I would love to see Sunderland spending **** loads on players like Fabregas, but would they want to come here even if we had the money?

"wholesale cuts": Who, when ?

 

Well, even if you are unable to see what has occured, or lack the vision to see what could of been. I will post this paragraph once again and ask you to let us know which option you would prefer?

"Look at it another way... Would you rather we spent money finished 5th in the league and didn't qualify for Europe due to non-compliance of the financial rules, or didn't spend money and finished 17th? Or worse still, relegation? Which one would you prefer as a supporter of SAFC?"

 

Thank **** for that.

 

I'm sorry Cest, but I've followed this club since 1948 (I say 'followed' rather than 'supported' because I've moved around a bit and 'support' wasn't always possible). But even after 63 years, I don't consider it my sworn duty to buy a poor product. We live in a market driven society, and if I don't like the product I'm being offered then I'll simply not buy it. If you're not happy with what they're offering, just don't go. You're not obliged to.

 

Bent left because of greed and the influence of people outside the club who suggested that he would further his international career by moving to a bigger club.

Ellis Short has spent money in making the club more finacially stable when he sorted out the clubs debts.

What are the wholesale cuts you refer too? Do you mean Bent, Henderson and Gyan?
We know why Bent left. Henderson is a decent player but certainly not an international class performer. The money we got for him represents very good business and will help further stabilise the club into the future. Gyan is also a greedy player who seems to be happy at the prospect of playing in front of a few hundred for many thousands of pounds. Best of luck to him but I certainly do not wish to see him back at SOL.

I like the way Short is running the club financially and trust him to make the right decisions when needed and that includes any managerial changes that may be required. No, I'm not suggesting that Bruce should go, on the contrary I think we should all get behind him as has been suggested by Cest. With Short leading us and making the tough decisions any club has to make I'm happy that we will continue to have a club in the top level of English football well into the forseeable future unlike the likes of Leeds and Nottingham Forest who have both played at the highest level, including Europe, in recent years. Look at where they are now. Why? because of bad financial management.

Of course, like all Sunderland supporters I'd love follow them into European competition and I'm naive enough to believe that if we all, management, players and supporters, work together as a team we can achieve our ambition to play at the very highest level.

 

We go to players, Ok we are going to push for top 6, we are going to spend 200 million and you will be part of it.

players "great"

but there is a catch, if we spend 200 million, we wont get into europe for about the next 6 years, as our turnover is ****

players "**** that then"

 

That's the rub, mate. Spot on. We must improve our marketing. We've fallen way behind some other clubs in that respect, and now we just have to work on that or flounder. It's an essential part of being a modern EPL club.

 

Forgive me but I'm not quite sure I understand...

We spend money and finish top 8 and don't qualify for Europe due to non-compliance or we don't spend money, don't qualify for Europe and finish bottom 6 or worse still...

We had an opportunity and missed it... (We have destroyed the framework of a potentially excellent squad) If we spent money this season and built a capable squad, even if it mean't not qualifying for Europe due to non-compliance (lets face it this squad won't be in Europe next season).... then as the contracts of the high earners expired over the next few years we could one by one renegotiate those contracts upon sustainable terms and then make a concerted effort to qualify for Europe because we would be offering better wages than most clubs and therefore be in an excellent position to retain the services of players with pedigree due to the revenue we could generate from our fan base and overseas merchandising.

Clearly this is a little to complex for some to digest.

 

but Europe is where the money is at, and CL mainly winning the PL gets you about 16 million, then it goes down by £800,000 per place, and in this day and age, with wages and agents etc the difference between 6th and 10th say is a pittance, ut if you spend a fortune, dont meet the fair play rules, and get top 6, dont get into europe, its a long and dangerous slope to disaster.

Its catch 22, you spend to go up the league, but when you do you cant get into Europe, you dont spend you are always playing catchup, but you may get to the FA cup final if you have the luck of the draw (and the players can be arsed to turn up). then you can improve the squad a little at a time, keep going up the league.

But even Europe isnt a gaurantee of success, just ask Boro and Birmingham.

 

How much are we losing by failing to fill the stadium week in week out (15000 fans)? How much would we lose if we finished 17th as opposed to 8th in the premier league? Add the two together and you will find that we are on the road to losing more revenue per season that what we would stand to gain by winning the champions league....

If we can avoid relegation for the next 2 seasons we might just be in a position to think about finishing in 10th place once again, however that is a big if with Bruce at the helm, a manager with a proven track record of relegation.

 

But who says we will finish 17th?

and 15,000 * 30 * 18 = £8,100,000

yes its a lot of money to us, but its not in the grand scheme of things, its 3 players on £40,000 a week or 1 on £120,000 a week.

And thats the other thing, I bet we have at least 5 players that have "I must be payed the same as the top earner" in their contracts.

So lets say they are all on £50,000pw, we get someone and pay him £90,000pw, ok to us, thats only an extra £40,000 per week or £2,000,000 a year, but then the club have to pay the other 5 the same, and also up the other players wages by a bit to keep them happy as well. so that £40,000 a week, turns into £200,000 a week minimum or £10,000,000 over the year minimum, just for signing 1 player on £90,000 a week. (which is why I believe we couldnt afford N`Zogbia.)

 

Excellent post Cest.
This was always the point for me. We don't have to like Bruce. We don't have to like his tactics. Quinny took all (nearly all) of the doubt away for me.
Bruce is Quinn's man. Quinn is as near to the perfect bloke as you'll ever meet IMO. If he says Bruce stays...well that's just dandy by me. Quinny has earned the right to not be questioned as far as I can see.
His loyalty to Sunderland is total and without a blemish, as is my loyalty to him.

 

In my eyes, Sir Niall has been a tremendous asset to our club and will ALWAYS be a legend even if we are relegated this season.

However it will be a shame if we are relegated... and let us not forget that Bruce does have a proven track record of relegation or forget what has occured on the pitch since January this year (nothing much if that needs clarity). I'm afraid I just cannot see Bruce, a manager with a proven track record of relegation steering the club to anywhere other than a relegation battle year in year out and the inevitiable will occur, as it already has for Bruce in his previous positions.

I'm away to pop the kettle on and make a nice cup of tea...

 

CL Prize Money

Europa League prize money

 

Ignoring the fact you practically insulted me by saying I have no vision...

Its not a question of which option, as you suggest, life isnt as easy as that. We have spent money, got rid of most of the crap from the Keane era, and brought in some decent players. We wont be able to attract (and/or keep) players who can get us into 5th place, until we are an established top 10 side. We had 2 players of that quality (top 6 quality) but we have been unable to keep them. The players we have at the club now have the quality needed for us to be an established top ten. Once we have achieved that (regardless of who we have as manager), then we can look at becoming one of the european challengers on a permanent basis and bring the players in to match that ambition.

Short is not the Man City owners who can afford to pay 11 players 150k+ a week to buy our way into Europe, and never was. Quinn's chairmanship and Drumville followed by Short's ownership was all about steady progress, and that is still the case now.

I still have no idea where you think we have made "wholesale cuts" nor which players you think we should have been buying in order for us to finish 5th. Maybe if you can enlighten me with your vision, then I will be able to adapt mine accordingly. I am not the only one to ask this of you, and you still havent answered.

 

If there is one thing managers need more than anything its a vote of confidence