I hear you, my old pal The trouble is, that Wenger and your current board go hand-in-glove. There's no way that a manager at any of the other top clubs would get away with the start you've had this season. But a new chap coming in would immediately be up against an aging board that does not like change. And what you need right now is change in abundance! I just can't see Wenger leaving before there is a major shake-up in your board. And when there is a major shake-up in your board (it may take a disastrous season to get there, though, chaps), Wenger may still survive, as he may be prepared to work with the new regime. For example, it may transpire that it was the board's decision to sell Fabregas this season, and to take the money for Nasri. If that proved to be the case, your board will have greatly compromised Wenger. I know this must sound incredibly strange coming from a Spurs supporter, but I actually do have a lot of sympathy for Wenger's position.
Did you read my original post or are you just responding to replies? The whole point was to avoid knee jerk or over the top reactions. Our season is already a mess and we won't get into the top 4 without going undefeated for the rest of the season. My point is if we don't buy 2 or 3 quality players in january, with some of the cash pile we have in the bank, we are sunk in mid table and there will be no Champions League next season.
I think my friend, that Arsene Wenger walked into this with his eyes open as Gazidis had said, in wanting to understand that curse of a business model. If anything he is almost as culpable. On the pitch where he can control play, there is simply no excuse in refusing to bring in a defensive coach and as for the absence of viable tactics, one can only say that it may be time for Arsene to concentrate on other matters.... I don't want him sacked. It would not be right but he should consider if he is still best placed to take us forward. You are right. The board needs to be changed. In fact there is only one majority shareholder who is on the board, namely Silent Stan and he has his own agenda..... The rest really are bit players and / or essentially his employees by which I mean Gazidis and Dick Law. Lady Nina was completely right in calling for the board to be sacked. The other big shareholder as you know has no say on the board and has himself asked why this is so. I am aware there are unresolved issues about him but I also believe in the presumption of innocence and who knows, participation may be his salvation and ours.
Tuffers my friend I think that even if we were to buy big in January, it's going to be a tough climb to a CL spot. TBH even the Europa Cup is an outside chance.
I don't think anything will happen till season end perhaps if it does, but do you think that the club should make the change now Robin if you had your way? Or do you think it's worth giving Arsene till say Christmas or seasons end to see if he can arrest the current form, hopefully make top 4 and then move him on for the good of everyone and have him save some pride. I realise it's been 6 years since we have won silverware, but give his status at the club, I don't envisage him ever being sacked, resignation is entirely possible if the slump were to be extended for a run of say 10 games and no significant improvement... It's quite sad as a lifelong fan and a big Arsene supporter that I feel a change in some aspects might be good, I don't agree and find some of the stuff posted by people on here regarding Arsene as unnecessary, emotional & insulting the man is not needed and unhelpful I am not aiming that at you Robin as you are a genuine fan and are eloquent in your portrayal of your views and wants for the club which I always find interesting an well thought out... I do sense an increasing hardening in your position on needing a change, not surprising I guess but I'd be interested to know what you think on how the club should go about this? If a decision were to be made to change. Cheers Robin
Was aimed more at the general theme and content of threads and comments across the board mate, not aimed at you in any way, I agree with you 100% on your final point there by the way..
Hello Amigo First of all this is not an enviable position for anyone to be in. Arsene has been tremendous for the club. To move him on in the manner by which other managers have been made to embark for new pastures would not be the way to treat a man like Arsene. If anything there should be a shrine at The Emirates or at least Highbury Square for him. However Arsene should ask himself if he can do any more with the club. If it is the board that is holding him back, perhaps it may help to say so. He would have the vast majority of support amongst the fans and the general public. The board may back down in such a situation. Actually it isn't the entire board that bears responsibility for this. For my money it is Kroenke and Gazidis, neither of whom have Gunner DNA!!! However I digress. Can Arsene arrest the current form? ONLY IF he is prepared to adopt a different approach. Take on a defensive coach, adopt different tactics ( use another coach for this if necessary ) and have players in the positions in which they can show their best. Arsene refuses to do any of these and it is mystifying. Which is why we needed David Dein to have come in this summer or in fact back last year. I doubt if the board has any plans for as Gazidis has said so in interviews. So we are where we are. It cannot continue like this or we simply will fall away from the elite in football, if we already haven't. If you consider our form, it does not originate at the start of this season but left over from the final quarter of the previous year with traces going back even further. So this is a longer term malaise. How do you cure a cancer that has been inherent for this period of time? I feel saddened that my view of Arsene has changed. That said I still do not want him sacked. But I wish he would consider if he is in the best position to change things for us and the evidence thus far is that there is very little to suggest we will be any better. Now as said before, this may not be all to do with him but where he can exert an influence, he has not made any headway and the impression is that he refuses to accept advice, suggestions or help with restoring the team to a position where they can fight back. I am almost beginning to think that he has in a sense lost his way. I think there is a visible trend to our slide which began in not replacing the likes of Viera, Henry, Pires, Flammini et al. It was also the way in which some of them were treated. I think Arsene bought into the business model of Messrs Kroenke and Gazidis. I believe too that they assumed that the FFP rules would be our salvation in justifying the business model. What I think they did not do was to see how for instance SAF adopted his own model and yet turned it into a success. If you have a club that is successful on the pitch, you can attract a wider following and to follow from that, push the commercial side of the club more successfully. Instead they went the property route and chose to build Arsenal City in N5 ( reference - all their existing and future property ventures ) while assuming the sporting side would take care of itself or that it would be taken care of when the FFP rules came into play. Arsene in fact said he would take care of the play but as I had pointed out in my long post earlier, those factors required to make this approach a success simply did not come together. How did they assume that Fabregas would have stayed when his departure was mooted two years ago? I think Manchester City caught them out too but I also think they went on a wing and prayer over their business model. They should have done it more in stages I think. Perhaps spread out the approach over a longer period so in the meantime they might have sustained the field of play with some more experienced players instead of turning it over to the untried but magical youth who when they were tested, simply didn't have enough experience to hold together for their magic to shine through. Remember how they used to crumble over the poast three to four seasons? In the earlier days one wrote that off to youth and inexperience but soon when the youth matured, so did all their bad habits and those of our manager. Arsene does not bear all the fault in this but he is responsible for the sporting side and right now, I don't think he has the answers...... nor do I really pal but it sure is fun to talk Cheerio 4 now
Superb response Robin, I think you and I are agreeable on many points, it is nice to see someone with knowledge and heart on these deep issues affecting our club. There are too many making rash statements who do not understand the issues or are unwilling - unable to make suggestion as to how we might turn this thing around, constructive criticism is helpful - you have made several suggestion and for me tactics and defensive coaching are glaring areas where we could strive to improve our team. I was just thinking there even regarding Jenkinson and Gibbs and Wenger man management or motivation skills, I would not say the likes of Gary Neville had really any more natural talent than say Gibbs or Jenkinson but through SAF top notch coaching, demanding standards and brilliant motivation abilities he got super levels of consistency and performance from very limited talent. This is just one example that springs to mind but I don't think I have ever seen Wenger really consistently coax better than expected performance from players of average talent, he always looks for top class more gifted players but some of these seem to lack the mental attitude and fighting qualities that our sides appear to have lacked for as long back as the invincible side. Either he has been unable to instil these qualities and attitude in his buys or he is simply neglecting that side of the argument when purchasing a player. I guess perhaps some of it harks back to our earlier conversations on overpaying young players and over rewarding without any real expectation/demand for the performance to back that up. Whatever it is though, there is clearly something amiss from our teams of the last number of years and even now, I don't think our players are all that bad and the performances certainly could be better from the current talent pool. I really do hope we can improve very quickly or the situation may become irretrievable shortly and with each poor result, our supporters and player will become further disheartened. Thanks again for taking the time to respond with such thought.
Thank you for your kind remarks Gunner. It is always good to speak with you on the board, even in these lamentable times. Do you recall there was an away match last year where we were down at HT and Arsene gave the team a difficult time in the interval? Cesc even said this in interviews. Well, we came out and won that game. Since then this has been more of a rarity. I do question Arsene's motivational skills not because he has none but over this time, what he must be saying cannot be of much help. Is he even saying much at all? And here is another good point you've raised. I think too that Arsene looks for technical ability above all else. Well I suppose it's only logical but he does appear to ignore the other aspects that can get one over the line. We have never had a leader like Patrick Viera since his departure. In fact much has been made of the leadership by example as was the way of Cesc. I'm afraid this is simply not enough because you need someone out there who can gather the players round and lift them up when the need arises. Someone to lead the charge of the light brigade so to speak, change tactics if necessary. We have not such a leader for a long time now and if the training, tactics, strategy and composure of the team are wanting then it is not surprising things fall apart so easily. The youth policy is the root of this I believe. Arsene treats the youth as grown ups, even pays them grown up wages but fails to instil grown up values in them. Thus when the going gets tough, they crumble. Can you blame them? No, I blame the manager and not out of convenience. Arsene hasn't given us one of his speeches about spirit and character for a while now because quite simply, there hasn't been much shown. My question therefore is, why hasn't he done something about it? Bringing in a player with leadership abilities was a vital component for the team that was ignored in the transfer market. It has been so in the recent seasons because Arsene has lavished responsibility and pride of position to boost the egos of his young players or those he wanted to retain like Gallas or Cesc, even Nasri on occasion. He has not sown his seed on good soil. Actually you are right here too. We do not have a bad team and in it are gems of talent. Amongst the younger ones, Oxlade-Chamberlain for instance. And we have yet to see Miyaichi and others in action. In Mikel Arteta, we have a solid, effortful player who makes up for the creativity that others past may have had but who I believe has greater leadership qualities and a strong sense of teamwork. In addition he has something to prove in this, probably his swansong appointment in a ' leading ' club. But having talent is one thing, getting the best out of them is another. That is down to the manager or in whomever he places this responsibility. That doesn't appear to be happening though. While I really like RvP and consider him one of my favourite players ( I think my moniker bears evidence of this ), I believe the leader of this team is best located in the midfield or towards the rear of the formation. That man can see the entire field of play or as in the case of Mikel, track back and make the clearance off the line that he did on the previous week. As I said buddy, it's always good to yap with you here. Whatever needs to happen as you say needs to happen soon. Another month of picking up an average of one point per match will barely get us into the top 15 let alone any higher. Consider that 39 was the number of points achieved by the top of the bottom three clubs which were relegated last season. We are on course for 38...... No razor blades, just lets all hope for better
Many intersting points there Robin, your correct with respect to RVP and the captains role, his appointment also ties in with Wengers appointments to the role previously and these appear to have been made more on the basis of off field reasons. The similiarites are startling in the appointment of RVP and for me he was not the correct choice for captain, this is no slight on Robin himself, but as you said strikers and I agree are not best positioned for the role. We can only hope for better of course Robin, I went with designer stubble this morning just to be on the safe side as I dit not entirely trust myself.
Well my friend, indeed you could consider a new look or try a battery-operated razor. An imaginary mischievous angel sitting on my shoulder suggests waxing but I didn;t think you were in for that Cheers please log in to view this image
If our form continues this badly I may end up sporting the Al Qaeda look before long, I will leave the waxing for the hard men players of the Premiership, Ironic that they are all sporting the tatooed hardman look yet oddly engage in having their legs waxed!
It's the 1st thing my wife says to me when she watches a game, she loves the new HD, but I get my own back with the womens beach volleyball! I have never looked myself of course
Yup and Womens Tennis is definitely more enjoyable too. Rafael Nadal took a leaf out of the ladies playbook some years ago by wearing those sleeveless tennis tops which I always associated with the women's game
