Nottingham........

Ummm so how do we control such mass disobedience exactly?

The demonstrations, the street parties, block parties, illegal raves, pubs rammed full, clubs rammed full, beaches rammed full etc. etc. etc.

 

Well if our population are going to be bell ends then you're right there is only so much you can do. But on the flip side, while a lot of what you've said has happened, a lot of it has been blown out of proportion because it's what sells.

Plenty of the photos from the summer of beaches being rammed full were easily disproven from other angles as photos that had been intentionally taken with a wide-angle lens to make it look worse than it was. Illegal raves have happened in isolation across the country, clubs have actually been shut (I don't know any in Bristol that have been open at all) so they haven't been rammed full. Don't get me wrong, we've been d*ckheads but probably not to the proportion that the papers tell you.

Brits can be idiots as I'm sure we'll all agree but I would imagine a lot of what you've quoted has also occurred in other countries too. This won't be a Brit-specific issue let's face it.

Also add in the fact that even the politicians are time and time again failing to follow the rules themselves, it's a perfect mix for our population to suddenly decide they can't be arsed. It does feel like the damage is done to some extent - I'm not sure I can imagine another 3+ week lockdown being followed like it was the first time around.

 

It matters not whether the media blew things out of proportion. That is just an excuse.

It only takes one infected person mingling in amongst thousands and chances are there will be more than just one and that is how the virus is spread and gets out of control again.

I mentioned before there was the report that people of a BAME background were far more likely to catch covid and then the covid hotspots are released and there is a direct correlation between the two by area.

My wife and daughter because of the chemotherapy drugs they take are in a high risk group, both have shielded as they should and walked away from situations that they deemed a danger to them, in fact we have only seen our daughter once since March, that is how seriously we have taken this pandemic.

It's quite simple really but far too many people are down right stupid, self obsessed and full of entitlement.

I agree about our politicians, but to be honest the sentence I highlighted describes probably 600 of the 650 tossers who govern us, in all my years I have never been so disillusioned by the incredibly low standard of MP's as I have been over the past 10 years.

 

Yeah absolutely agree on all that. I wasn't trying to provide an excuse, more just an observation. Disagreements aside, sorry to hear about your family. When people say about the 99.5% survival rate and shout about how we should just 'carry on', it's people like that being impacted who they forget. My grandad has barely left the house in a year either.

 

to a degree that thinking is OK … not sure what is or not on the shelves, but heard rumours clothes electrical etc and some personal hygiene products?? withdrawn. So all small shops close except those selling food? and maybe chemists?
you can look at it from 2 perspectives …. I cant see that on day 18 it will see a massive invasion of those small shops that closed. BUT how many people actually go to Tesco just to buy a pair of knickers or a jumper etc and do a bit of shopping as well? [the other way around is of lesser consequence. food shop and buy odd non food item.] on day 18 if Tesco's ban on selling non food items is lifted will people flood them? so should their ban be 2 weeks longer?

I do not know if it changed in Italy but a few years ago supermarkets and garages all had to sell fuel at government stated same prices! This worked very well as people were not tempted to drive x miles to get fuel and no shopping it also protected the local garage and its small shop in smaller towns and villages … many towns had a small Lidl /Aldi/SUPER U type supermarket without a filling station but did have a garage selling fuel !!!! maybe wales should adopt this plan for a year … supermarkets banned from selling non food items?

 

Tesco’s in Chepstow refused to sell period products to a young women today. So they have to redo essential items list tomorrow.
Yesterday in Newport Tesco’s a lad went shopping in a face mask and boxers because clothing is deemed non essential.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/supermarket-non-essential-pants-tesco-19160918

 

I was just pleased he didn’t consider boxers as non essential too

 

I wondered if he was you

 

Are we also forgetting the millions of people who's livelihood, mental health, children's education, added poverty, job losses, business closing, reduced or lack of ongoing medical treatments which will go on for years to come......At some point, we will have to carry on, can't keep locking down every couple of months...it's not possible.

 

the biggest problem in Wales ...valleys mostly, is the working mens clubs and local tight knit communities. Everytime I have had course to visit " a drinking venue" they have always been quite busy even dinner times. Have a lot of friends in S Wales [ am radio / hobby ] and often topics of chat was based around "the club" or pub. It is difficult to see how these people would keep apart … and possibly even bother to adhere to rules and reg's.
When you look at the tier 3 areas they are similarly compact as the area of S Wales …
I would suspect that even now just days into the lockdown a fair % is not following the rules .. that applies to all tier 3 and Wales!

 

Nah, more of a Sainsbury’s man myself

 

Absolutely a fair point. But this (and sorry to go around in circles), is where the government could have done better. Their incredibly slow response made those consequences so much worse. Though if we'd actually listened and acted appropriately (we had 2 weeks head start on the rest of Europe remember), there's no reason why we couldn't be like New Zealand right now. Businesses open, sports going on, gigs and festivals happening. Granted, they have a few factors on their side over us, but we could have done so much better. There was a critical period where fast action could have kept us in a semi-normal way of life, and we missed it by a mile.

I'm still clinging to the hope that we get a decent summer next year. By all accounts, at least one vaccine will be ready to go in the coming months, perhaps even before the end of the year. There's no reason why it couldn't be rolled out to those most vulnerable in the spring, with numbers high enough to achieve artificial herd immunity by summer. Optimistic, but also realistic I think.

 

I don't argue with much of this, but I suggest you look at the latest news from New Zealand, apparently people who are suspected of having covid can be forcibly removed to isolation camps.

Now let me say I have no problem with this and or the tough measures that New Zealand and Australia imposed from pretty much day 1.

But can you imagine parasite human rights lawyers allowing any of those measures here in the UK? not a chance.

 

Rob ..hindsight is a fantastic tool to put everything right. Had I had the hindsight in my shares portfolio over the past 6 months I would be twice as rich as now!
we had 2 weeks start on the rest of EUROPE...! it was probably a bit more, [ and likely just Italy! ] however something so new had to be treated with a little caution and they made a lot of errors [ as did other countries] and there was /is so many mitigating factors to take into account.
you highlight NZ...well lets look at the facts... 5m population is on 2 main separate islands and a few others with populations from 9000 downward …. density of population is less than 50 per sq mile eliminate eliminate Auckland, Wellington and Nelson and the density is around <1 per square mile! They were much later getting an infection and able to benefit from no one [ very few airlines flying ] flying there. [visitors were nominal, mainly residents all tested and isolated ] the other advantage was their population didn't have the twats we have that partied and ignored the rules! I would say your statement "Granted they have a few factors on their side over us " is a GROSS understatement!
another big problem we have is Labour is very bitter … SIR K slimey is a hypocritically orientated political points grabber... agree's that .gov is doing right thing before waiting a few days before changing his mind …
I also think that the band wagon of free school meals [ mostly labour backed opposition to it ] is another attempt to gain political points. [ think Rashford was right in the summer, got a result and an MBE ] HOWEVER Rashford is getting rather egged on and pulled into a political cauldron. The .gov as a result of the Rashford pre summer made adjustments to welfare and put the onus on local councils to take up the slack £bn being given to them plus £20 a week on poor /low incomes to compensate. SO HAVE HAD THEIR CAKE , eaten it and now want more!
Interviews .. have you noted those that get interviewed "I need money for my kids in the holidays as they are starving" or seen collecting freebies always seem to have designer labels or trainers that cost circa £80 +++ REALLY what happened to roof overhead and food on table!

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing mate. Like Realred say's I'm not sure we should be compared to the likes of NZ or anywhere else at this point.. Most countries even collect their information differently......
But I will stress, no matter what political party in power, the act of response would not have been any better.....basically we didn't really know anything about it or how to deal with it....we watched others to see if their measures worked. I wouldn't have blamed any government in power for that.
I agree, mistakes were made, but that's how we learn.....Seems like we are quite up on it in the hospitals, fairly under control and are ready for many more cases due to knowing much more about how to treat the virus......very few being put on ventilators due to successful drugs being administered.
All these lockdowns, scaremongering and restrictions are so OTT, it's doing more damage to people than the virus ever will..

By all accounts, at least one vaccine will be ready to go in the coming months, perhaps even before the end of the year.

The conspiracy in me is saying "That's convenient"

 

Well you can all say that hindsight is a wonderful thing - the genuinely wonderful thing is that the two week period over mainland Europe was in essence hindsight. We were far, far too late. Mistakes are forgivable to some extent but it was clearly an effort to save the economy which backfired so much that we're now the worst out of the top economies. It's such an irony that locking down even just a few days earlier would probably have meant our lockdown was massively shorter.

We're doing it to death but this is where we are I suppose. You guys want to forgive the government for everything and I want to criticise them for everything . For many though, they have already made one gaff too many.

 

If only there was a credible opposition?

 

The worst on record IMO....head scratching how some people think otherwise.........it's there, so let's criticise it, hiding around the corner for a mistake to pounce on. It's tedious
I remember when lockdown was announced, many saying "why the hell are the government acting hastily"!! It was always going to be a no win situation even though those decisions were advised by chief medical advisers....whom many times the government announced at the time.......so many bad memories out there!!

 

I'll give you the worst opposition on record, but only on the basis that they're doing sod all to shift the worst government in living memory.

Bleak times.

 

Feckin 'ell - what a thread. Talk about circles...........