Tottenham vs the Toon

I don't agree on pardew he took the job when Hughton was unfairly sacked, so he like Bruce has benefitted from the foundations his predicessor had built from the burning embers they themselves had when they took the job... My point is that pardew left ie he jumped ship when we were in a right mess... So like I said there's only Robson, keegan and yes Hughton who left the job better than it was before they took it... Or at least I can't recall any others.

Pardew did well for a season there's no dentin that and probably our 2nd best manager of the Ashley reign, but it's a different argument I'm posing

 

Those two things are completely wrong, you're completely misremembering the events.

Hughton was sacked after one of the worst performances I've ever seen Newcastle play. It was a 3-1 defeat against West Brom and I distinctly remember thinking at the time that Hughton had to go, I remember watching that bored out of my skull without a single bit of passion from our side. It was disgraceful.

You cannot, simply cannot, say that Pardew "benefited" from Hughtons foundations over the ENTIRE four years he was manager and then dismiss all of his achievements. First and foremost, we sold Carroll right after Pardew became manager, that was Hughtons most important player, we phased out Nolan for Cabaye, brought Ben more into things, Barton was put in the reserves, those three were the absolute heart of Hughton's side.

The only two players who survived Pardew's era from the original Hughton team that I can even recall were Colo and Williamson, potentially Guti, but he was a sub mostly.

Pardew had at one point one of the best Newcastle teams we've seen since Robson.

We were 10th and looked safely in the top half by the time he was leaving for Palace. He didn't leave a sinking ship, he left a ship calmly afloat and on course, We then hired a drunken ****ing oath to captain the ship who promptly slammed the ****er into an iceberg.

 

There’s rewriting history and there’s rewriting history but this is the best bit of fiction since J K Rowling finished writing the Harry Potter books.

1. 
   “There’s little doubt 2014 has been an absolute horror show for anyone connected to Newcastle United, with 12 of their 17 games ending in defeat.
   
   In 11 of those fixtures, the Magpies have failed to find the net and have collected just 13 points out of a possible 48 this year—less than relegation-threatened Fulham and bottom-of-the-table Sunderland.
   
   In the same period, Alan Pardew’s side have garnered a goal difference of minus-20, scored just 11 times and suffered a hat-trick of 3-0 and a trio of 4-0 defeats along the way.
   
   In their 20-year Premier League history, this is one of the most fruitless runs the club has been on, and for that reason alone, a change of manager should be the first step toward a major overhaul.”

Pardew was a “streaky” manager. His teams would go on a winning run and then without any apparent reason would then go on a losing run with Pardew none the wiser as to why either of those runs occurred. He may have man managed players but no way in hell was he an astute tactician.

 

Bit homo that you're such a big fan of the Harry Potter books

but like a **** journalist you conveniently halted your story right before the moment that we went on a 6 game winning streak, ended Chelsea's unbeaten start to the season in the process and Pardew won a manager of the month award.

Like I said, in good form and 10th.

 

Homoist.

Like I said, he was a streaky manager. He did similar before and then went on a horrendous run.

 

I think that's immaterial, if you dislike the man it's very convenient to say "yeah, we turned around the bad run, but its cos he's streaky and therefore not worth talking about." I think if you're balanced you can see we had a talented squad when he walked, we were in a solid position, if Newcastle United hired a proper manager anytime in the season and a half after he left we could have carried on and pushed on.

It was the club who fell apart because of the top management, not Pardew. He was just doing his job and on reflection, only Rafa has managed to reach one of Pardew's finishing positions, 10th.

 

Under another **** manager

 

But Pardew also turned round a good run and went on one of the worst runs in Newcastle’s history with the same players he had been on a good run with. Good managers and decent managers don’t do the swings to those extremes. One of the reasons Pardew is not, was not, a good or decent manager.

 

I put a few managers in the league down as "good" I simply don't think managers jobs tactically is that hard. Just my opinion.

But if you're not good or decent, you're a bad manager, and a bad manager would have seen us relegated in our second season. Not 5th and a European quarter final. Pardew was a decent manager.

Past it now like, I'd never take any of our old managers back, but at the time he accomplished pretty much everything expected of him and then some. Only deluded old coots living in the 1990s would have expected more.

 

What would a "good" manager have achieved with that Newcastle squad when we finished 5th? Win the league?

 

Would a good manager have had the run from January 2014 to the end of the season?

No.

Would a decent manager have had the run from January 2014 to the end of the season?

No.

 

You can say that again!

 

Quite clearly just a dislike of the man for me this, therefore the entire discussion is pointless.

I think how you've decided to plant your flag on a mute point says enough.

 

Pardew was an arsehole that thought Sammy ameobi was better than Ben arfa even when he wasn't fat

 

I get it. Two points you can’t dispute and the discussion is pointless. Says it all.

And yes, I didn’t like Pardew as manager of Newcastle (I couldn’t comment on him personally as I don’t know him) but he regularly lacked class and was a mouthpiece for Ashley.

 

Shut up Groot ffs

I argued against it very clearly and you repeated it, then I decide it's pointless and you say I can't argue it.

Absolutely despise that type of ****, very clear to see what you just did.

 

You can try and be condescending but I can’t.



Love you really.

 

Defo. I hated Pardew as a man, and he was so cringey at times. I was massively disappointed when we went and got him. I think our fans struggle to see past him being a bit of a bell. If you look at it objectively (something our fans rarely do) he did a good job, the best of any under Ashley. Never relegated. Never seriously threatened by relegation in 4.5 years. His worst season came after the 5th place season when we bought only Anita to get us through the additional Europa League games. We got to a QF but we didn't half pay the price. If you look at the teams who qualify for the Europa via the league and have to play the full quota of games, they rarely have a good season because they don't have the finance to put a squad together. This is often forgotten as context by our fans when looking at that bad run conveniently. All said and done he delivered the best league season and a good performance in Europe.

He also had to coach a side rebuilt after being dismantled by the players wanting to leave. Carroll and Enrique departed and contrary to what people present now, they were actually pretty good for us at the time. We used that money well. We had the tantrums from HBA, Ba wanting off to Chelsea, Cabaye wanting off to Arsenal then PSG. Debuchy wanting off to Arsenal. Constant turnover. Like all the managers under Ashley he receives minimal kudos for the signings themselves, but he managed the transitions well.

He was in charge for two massive rinsings of Liverpool (35m for Carroll) and Spurs (35m for Sissoko). And also oversaw the development of Perez who we then sold for a huge sum later. The **** he had to put with was ridiculous from owner and fans.

 

Only that's not the argument is it

The argument is which managers left the club in a better position than when they took over... Pardew did not.

Also pardew didn't have any input on signings or outgoings.


Now because you've opened up a separate argument I'll unlike you be honest and just say pardew did well in his time at Newcastle.. There's no argument there.

 

To be honest the claim he benefitted from Hughton's time is somewhat of bizarre claim - maybe he benefitted from them dismantling that side and getting a pretty sum - then they bought him a better team. On the flipside, its a lot of turnover. From that point on though he was just continually ****ed up the arse by Ashley. The switch to Pardew actually oversaw a complete overhaul of the squad (french invasion etc) so nothing really to build on. If you look at the squad he left in good form and 10th in the league he'd done well to deal with loss of so many key players. Obviously they brought in inferior players for him to manage, but he still left us in a good slot.

Its worth noting I did clarify that no managers under Ashley get credit for signings. Indeed not many managers do now, they are coaches. All they do is pick from scouts selections. Obviously they have to pick the right ones presented. Pardew clearly did that well, for all he went all out for quality over quantity. Whereas Rafa spread the money thinner but the squad was better at dealing with injuries. Again Rafa picked players well for his needs.

Don't like bloke, but I can concede Pardew's Ashley's best performing monkey based on what I'd consider standard criteria - finishing positions, entertainment/style, european football, behaviour/class (the only one that drags him down really). I wouldn't want him as manager ever again but its pointless trying to pretend he's not his best manager. I've said before though its not a fair barometer for judging a managers ability. Its only a barometer for judging how managers do with arms tied behind their back.