Coronavirus: Please use this thread for all COVID19 talk!

The biggest issue for me is that our government didn’t learn from other countries, quickly enough.
Throughout the pandemic I have been posting how Spain initiated and enforced their lockdown. Some on here said it was too extreme, but it worked.
They got the daily death count down to single figures every day, not like here where, because of the way we collate information we get low figures on Saturday and Sunday, followed by high figures for the other 5 days of the week.
We have eased lockdown when our death figures are still very high, compared to most places in Europe, because of the poor controls.
In Spain the lockdown was eased by regions, that had daily figures including daily new infections and daily deaths, as well as tests carried out and the numbers that had recovered. They also eased lockdown in phases.
All phases were accompanied by a clear and concise list of dos and don’ts, with penalties also listed and enforced for breaches.
Those living in a region at Phase 1, for example, could visit other regions that were at the same Phase, (without passing through a region at a higher Phase) but couldn’t visit regions that had moved to Phase 2, because those in Phase 2 had the virus under better control and fewer infections.
Any spike in infection saw regions dropped back from Phase 2 to Phase 1 etc.
We could have done that, by splitting the country into counties, but we didn’t.
I wouldn’t accuse the government of being arrogant or flippant.
I would say complacent and negligent, because they had more time to prepare than Italy and Spain, which ties in with Johnson initially talking about just letting the virus run and taking it in one hit.

 

These are the fundamental points, IMO. The UK (and the US, for that matter) had time to prepare and failed to make good on it. Most other countries that had time did far better. That the UK outpaces the countries that got blindsided in deaths per capita speaks to how poorly the UK has handled this, at all levels.

 

I do agree with large parts of what you say and it's very sensible, but I'm not sure it's all so directly comparable for me to make such a direct judgement at this time.

For example, since re opening the UK we have introduced local lock downs, similar to Spain and other countries.

The other point I'm not sure on is you say:

We have eased lockdown when our death figures are still very high, compared to most places in Europe, because of the poor controls.

We dont right now know why are figures are so high, and partly some of any delta will be due to locking down later and boarder control, but also the demographics, spread and health of our nation are hugely important contributors.

We are a generally obese nation and one of the worst anywhere. This has an impact. I'm not defending the Gov, I couldn't give a **** about them, but it's not all down to them. Look at the actions of 1000s of people who refused to adhere to the rules, who went to beaches in their 1000s and all those that thought protesting for BLM in the manner they did.

And the morons going to parties and not observing the rules in pubs.

All those things contributed massively to our issues, whilst many observed the rules to protect others.

So whilst I accept the Gov have some explaining to do, so do many thousands of people we live, and die, alongside.

 

I accept that there have been idiots who have abused the social distancing.
That was always going to be the case but it was made easier for them to do this by the action of Cummings and the inaction of the government, when they failed to sack him.
Even now, when police intervene with groups breaching the rules, the most frequently used excuse is that if the government think it is ok for Cummings to do it, why isn’t it ok for them to do the same.
With regards to making comparisons with how other countries have handled the crisis, it can never be done too early, IMO.
If you aren’t comparing how you are doing, with others on an ongoing basis, how will you know if you are taking the right actions at the right times?
How do you learn, other than by making avoidable mistakes, that are costing lives and money?
Alicante airport was receiving regular deliveries of appropriate PPE throughout the pandemic, sourced through the EU countries collaborating.
We could have been part of this, but decided to throw money at private companies, many with links to the Tory party, only to receive millions of pounds worth of PPE that was not fit for purpose.
The lack of proper PPE has cost lives.
As for the beaches, again I have put links on here to how Spain have handled this. They have sectioned off beaches into 4 metre squares, they have closed entrances to beaches and just left one or two open, that are staffed. When all the socially distanced squares are full, no one else enters the beach, until others vacate the squares.
It is organised there, whereas here it isn’t, which gives the media and the government the opportunity to point fingers at the people on the beach, instead of having people ask “Why isn’t it being controlled? Why is no one, in power, taking responsibility?”

 

On this point from your post.

“The other point I'm not sure on is you say:

We have eased lockdown when our death figures are still very high, compared to most places in Europe, because of the poor controls.

We dont right now know why are figures are so high, and partly some of any delta will be due to locking down later and boarder control, but also the demographics, spread and health of our nation are hugely important contributors.”

We eased lockdown whilst our weekly death count was still in the region of 300/400. It’s still around 300 now, isn’t it?
In other countries they had reduced that figure to double figures per week, which indicated that it was under tighter control.
They also seem to have better data, showing fewer infections than here, when they were easing lockdown.
The recent surge in Spain, in many cases, happened as a result of re-opening the internal spaces at bars and clubs, and the most frequently infected age group was 20-40, those most likely to attend them.
Spain, because of the weather, could close the inside space on bars and return to the system they used when they reopened them, by letting them use just their external space, to try and regain control, without closing businesses again.

 

Russia claiming vaccine is ready to use......far too early IMO.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53735718

 

I’m very much pro-vaccine (as I have more than one brain cell) but I’d want to see the data before using this one. Do they inject it with a brolly?

 

Applied to the front door handle is the modern way.

 

I’m with you Fran.

I will be first in the queue, once I feel it is safe.

I am 100% sure though that Bill Gates won’t have a microchip in it

 

I'm pro vaccine but won't be in any rush to take this one tbh. Nothing to do with any conspiracy but that i worry about side effects of something developed so quickly.

 

I agree. Normally it takes 5-8 years of testing.

However, these aren’t normal times but I’ll wait until a few others have taken it.

TBF, being a geek, if there was a microchip in it I’d probably take it earlier

 

And that's definitely fair. I'll take cues from the science-y sorts, some of whom have already expressed deep reservations about vaccines being rushed to market. If they give a thumbs-up to the testing process, I will get vaccinated as soon as it makes sense. If they don't, I am with you.

 

My guess would be that a vaccine developed in a reputable country is more likely to be ineffective than hazardous. Safety stuff will be done, but effectiveness will be more of a wait and see variety.

 

As well as vaccines treatments are also being prioritised with dexamethasone appearing to be effective in serious cases.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52354520.
NY times listing 20 drugs some as bunkhttps://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-drugs-treatments.html

 

The Kuwait health ministry is already planning on buying the Russian vaccine so I’ll let you know how it goes.

 

Yesterday had the highest number of new cases, 1148, in the UK since 21 June, according to the Indy:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...nfections-cases-government-data-a9666501.html

 

But the total death rate remains below the average for the time of year. 6 weeks and counting, apparently.

 

Is the Devil and his gang (I think that is similar to how the Gov should be referred to) going to revise the numbers of Covid deaths down, as England report deaths that had Covid, but that may have died of something else. Be interesting to see how that plays out, and if our numbers come in-line with Spain, France, Italy.

 

Which could be because of the huge number of excess deaths between April and July. Many of those people may have died a few weeks earlier than they would have, either directly because of the virus, or indirectly because a different medical issue wasn’t picked up or treated in time. Just as an example, visits to cancer clinics have been down by about 75% during lockdown.

 

The bodies aren’t exactly piling up in the streets though, are they? Not trying to trivialise anything btw. But everybody dies; in the meantime, those of us lucky enough to still be in reasonable health, have lives to live. We can’t spend forever in lockdown.