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Off Topic Who do you want next?

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Lovearsenalcock, Jul 2, 2020.

  1. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Liverpool, Man City and Man Utd all have more revenue than us and Chelsea have a year to catch up so of course we won't be in the top four spenders. You said that we wouldn't spend at all
     
    #61
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  2. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I should have said I meant minimal (net spend) spending
     
    #62
  3. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    He's supporting his son.
     
    #63
  4. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    I agree that this is what will happen. We'll shift some players out and have a relatively low net spend.
     
    #64
  5. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    Is that enough to turn things around though?
     
    #65
  6. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    If we sign a DM that may well count as a little but it would get us on the path of a long way

    While nobody can fault Sissoko or Winks for their workrate, and they're certainly two players who have played all season like they give a ****, I would sooner go to my local Wetherspoons than see either of them deployed as an ersatz DM again
     
    #66
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  7. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    If it doesn't then we are ****ed because there is no prospect of a net spend high enough to bring in 5 or 6 elite players. Even if there was our record of getting bang for the buck is much worse on expensive players. Here is the list of signings over £20m
    Bergwijn
    Ndombele
    Lo Celso
    Sessegnon
    Sanchez
    Aurier
    Lucas
    Sissoko
    Son
    Lamela
    Soldado

    Of the seven of those that we have had time to judge, only one is elite quality. One might become so in time, three are on the fringes and two not even close. The four most recent ones look to be following the same model. So to get five quality players we would need to spend 400m plus!
    When people accuse Levy of not backing the manager they might be better looking at how much money has been pissed up the wall on expensive rubbish. Our record of cheaper purchases is massively better and we could afford to get half of them wrong which we generally better.
     
    #67
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
  8. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    Lucas is another too, he was around £27m IIRC. Semi final heroics and a few good spells here and there aside, he also hasn’t exactly set the world alight.
     
    #68
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  9. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I've edited my post to include him. Makes things worse than I said. So of 11 signings for 20m plus, we have two good ones, three average ones, two terrible ones and the jury is out on the other four.
     
    #69
  10. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that, if we sell players, the odds are the shoutiest of our fanbase would go apoplectic

    Case in point, if we sold Lucas you can guarantee the club's Twitter would be aflame with...well let's take a quick look at our Twitter this morning, eh?



    ...and you have to love the one blowhard who says there's been no investment in the club when replying to a picture of one ****ing great big investment in the club

    The fact that Poch couldn't even bench Eriksen or Vertonghen at the start of the season without the Lunatic Fringe creating about it for days on end says what will happen if we decide to let Lucas (to name one player) go to free up some funds as you'd get a couple of dozen tweets howling about his hat trick against Ajax within a minute of the tweet announcing his sale going up, most of which looking exactly like the ones listed above. Same can be said for Dele being sold in a Coutinho-like move to free up funds, which is something the r/coys crowd are increasingly fixating upon, as if that won't lead to an audible bellow from the Enfield area that could be heard for several miles

    That's the one potential benefit of a the transfer market being shaped by the pandemic, as there is a chance of hitting two birds with one stone and that will keep the Lunatic Fringe merely seething instead of posting spit-flecked tweets every five minutes, case in point the rumour about us offering cash + Lucas for Milinkovic-Savic that's done the rounds in the last few days would neuter the bellowing significantly because a.) We signed a player, and b.) Signed a player who looks genuine quality - all of which would lessen the number of spit-flecked tweets about letting Lucas go, even though a.) With Bergwijn and Lamela at the club he is easily expandable, and b.) Lucas has been a Brazilian Andros Townsend this season whose main purpose is to be where our possession goes to die
     
    #70

  11. Lovearsenalcock

    Lovearsenalcock Homeboy
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    #71
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  12. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    See my point being proven
     
    #72
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  13. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

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    i would say though, in recent years (might dip cause of corona now) and the huge tv money but 20m isn't really classed a lot of money and will get you an elite player. lamela and soldado was big money back then but lucas, sessegnon, aurier is standard money. In fact people thought you were picking up these two well reputed players at very good prices (a levying so to speak).

    when the likes of tyrone mings, alex iwobi, renato sanches even nathan no goals solanke was 19m then i don't think you can be talking about 20m signings as expensive (yes footballs farked)
     
    #73
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  14. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    To be honest if you lower the floor of that figure to £15m that continues to show the same pattern

    Luka Modric
    Mousa Dembele
    Vincent Janssen
    David Bentley
    Barren Dent
    Paulinho

    That gives us two of our best players of the past twenty years - yet also three of our all-time dud signings, plus Paulinho who everyone seems to have a blind spot about how poor he actually was

    Indeed there was a period where it seemed the moment we spent more than £5m on any player they were destined to fail: Serhiy Rebrov (£11m), Dean Richards (£8.1m), Helder Postiga (£6.25m...thank god for add-ons) and Les Ferdinand (£6m) all failed to justify their fees, and that was a time where £6-11m was actually worth £6-11m, as opposed to now where that's worth approximately £3.50
     
    #74
  15. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Correct but doesn't alter the fact that these are our 11 highest priced signings.
    If you look at other clubs top 11 signings the story is not dissimilar, so I can see where Levy gets his cautious view about big money signings.
     
    #75
  16. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    It has to be said that, during the Arnesen era, there was certainly a better grasp of what we needed to do

    1.) Bring in young English talent for affordable fees, shine them up, and then move them on and reap the profits
    2.) Don't spend big on squad players, spend smart

    And for the most part this policy was working, even if Santini was doing his best to undermine it

    The issue was that, especially when Comolli came aboard, spending smart went out the window - for example while we made a £12.5m profit on Carrick leaving, spending £8.7m on that on Zokora because we needed an immediate replacement was a complete waste as Zokora wasn't a replacement but somebody LARPing as Patrick Vieira even though he lacked both the defensive abilities or the ball control to do so. Same goes for a couple of years later, where spending smart wasn't on the agenda when he pissed away £16.5m on Barren Dent even though he wasn't needed (which also saw Defoe ask to leave due to being pushed down the pecking order) or some of the absurd waste of the Keane/Berbatov cash such as £15m on David Bentley. Similar can be said for Paul Mitchell, frankly, considering we spent a combined £29m on Janssen and Nkoudou when, in that very same window, spending £16m would have got us Timo Werner and Ousmane Dembele

    Spending smart is what got us the likes of Berbatov, Woodgate, Carrick, Alderweireld, Dembele, and Dele, among others, while spending big has got us a long list of high profile duds like Bentley, Bent, Paulinho and Soldado. Obviously there's examples in both columns that say the opposite, but on the whole when we use a blank cheque things tend to go south pretty damn quick
     
    #76
  17. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

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    well you need to take into account spending levels not the gross amount. You might as well say real madrid robbed you for getting modric so cheap (he wasnt at the time) but football moves onto different wealth levels.

    The likes of Berba and Keane were big money signings at the time (even though they were for 10m which is probably your 50ms at the time). I would say it's been a bit hit and miss with your big signings with them being more miss lately although you only need to compare your two big signings recently and your cheap ones to see your hit rate.

    You had your golden period with toby, alli, wanyama,son and even trippier and davies to a certain extent (all relatively cheap) all coming through the short period whereas of recent note:

    Sanchez - Big money iffy
    Gazza - cheap, okay
    Moura - normal money, okay for the price but not outstanding
    Aurier - normal money, bad transfer
    Foyth - Cheap, speculative, hasn't worked out so far
    Llorente - Cheapish, really good buy surprised he wasnt kept
    Sessegnon - border between normal/expensive money, hasn't lived up to his reputation so far
    Ndombele - really expensive and so far tragic although has shown flashes
    Lo Celso - Big money and looking excellent
    Fernandes - big loan fee? hasn't really had a look in but looks okay

    Of this, 3 big money buys, 1 success, 1 failuture (ndom) and 1 okay but would have hoped for more

    of the mid range buys of around 20m, 2 failtures and 1 doing okay but would have hope for more

    the cheap ones, only llorente and the other 2 you could write off have done okay but taking up a squad place without contributing really.
     
    #77
  18. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    One thing we certainly need to address is how predecible our transfer business is, and by "predictable" I mean we have a very narrow focus when it comes to scouting, as our transfer business since Poch was appointed makes abundantly clear

    Premier League
    Ben Davies
    Paulo Gazzaniga
    Fernando Llorente
    Ryan Sessegnon
    Moussa Sissoko
    Kieran Trippier
    Victor Wanyama
    Michel Vorm

    Football League
    Dele Alli
    Jack Clarke

    La Liga
    Toby Alderweireld*
    Federico Fazio
    Giovani Lo Celso

    Bundesliga
    Son Heung-min
    Kevin Wimmer

    Ligue 1
    Serge Aurier
    Lucas Moura
    Tanguy Ndombele
    Clinton N'Jie
    Georges Kevin Nkoudou
    Benjamin Stambouli

    Eredivisie
    Steven Bergwijn
    Vincent Janssen
    Davinson Sanchez

    Primeira Liga
    Eric Dier
    Gedson Fernandes

    Primera Division
    Juan Foyth

    MLS
    DeAndre Yedlin

    Obviously there's no issue scouting the English leagues considering how important the HG quota is, but on the other hand the over reliance on Ligue 1 and, to a lesser degree, Eredivisie really stands out when you lay out our transfer business since 2014

    This is where our scouting is going wrong, for two reasons

    First of all, if numerous clubs from the Premier League and beyond are also scouring a league for talent, which is certainly the case with Ligue 1, if we do the same then we're always at risk of coming second best as there's always going to be a team with deeper pockets and/or friends in the media who can get a leg up on us, as demonstrated as much by Marseilles hanging on for a FFP-covering bid from Chelsea when we were after Batshuayi a few years ago just as it's clear from the tapping-up campaign Los Ladrones have started as they look to secure Edouard Camavinga

    Secondly, look at all the leagues we're completely overlooking: Serie A is the most obvious one, but the Belgian, Croatian, Swiss and Danish leagues all have plenty of players who not only clearly have talent and can add to our squad, but carry far less liability due to their lower prices - for example Dani Olmo cost Taurine FC Leipzig £17.5m from Dinamo Zagreb in January - yet if he played for Real Sociedad, let alone one of the bigger names in La Liga, he'd be costing upwards of £30m. Same can be said for Robert Skov, who cost Hoffenheim a little more than £7.5m from Copenhagen last summer, yet he'd cost two or three times that at least if he was a Ligue 1/Bundesliga/whatever player. Hell, look at Salah, who cost the Chavs just £11m from Basel a few years back

    This is where our scouting has fallen down for years, because not only is our scouting's reach not wide enough so we're overlooking certain leagues constantly, but we keep going back to the same league time and again even though by this point it's clear there's not much value to be found in Ligue 1 as most clubs are based around screwing a few million extra out of English/Spanish clubs every summer to cover their FFP for a couple of seasons
     
    #78
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  19. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    Ralph Hassenhuttl not doing himself any harm if Spurs decide to go for yet another Southampton manager in the future
     
    #79
  20. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Who do I want next? Somebody who doesn't provoke this reaction when he walks in the door

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    * Although this may just be sneaky editing on Amazon's part for the trailer
     
    #80

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