Coronavirus: Please use this thread for all COVID19 talk!

Someone did mention the other day where are the likes of Bono and Geldof? Why aren’t they campaigning now?

 

I have to disagree the frontline staff have working without enough PPE that's NHS and social care that have had infected patients thrust on them. Having done many risk assessments for work in hazardous areas where correct PPE and equipment is a priority I'm sure lack of equipment has caused deaths,

 

This excellent.

 

What is there to disagree about?

Not having PPE for the NHS may have spread the virus, and I said people have died due to the virus being able to spread. PPE has possibly helped the virus spread, not sure anyone can accurately say if so, and by how much.

To my understanding, everyone who needed ventilation, beds, staff etc has received that, the virus is just so strong, so not sure I believe you when you say there has been a lack of equipment. Lack of PPE, yes, and I imagine that is hard to get hold of, a large number of countries have a very similar issue.

 

I would disagree with you based on my experience. I don't want to post too much negative stuff as god knows people have enough to cope with at present, but equipment has been a constant issue, beds maybe fine but I've seen (and had to deliver) paltry amounts of masks, gloves and etc around Dorset. The look on people's face when you say that's all their getting haunts me. One of my wife's jobs is in private healthcare, they have ample PPE but struggle to get the staff.

My only face-to-face contact with a client showing signs of infection was a charade. No PPE available. I was just told to stay a decent distance away from him, which I attempted to do but he doesn't understand thesituation and it made it really difficult to communicate with him.
Lack of equipment and an almost stunning lack of leadership from middle management are the two worst problems I've seen. But now it's the time to get through this stuff and hopefully sort out these issues later.

 

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For goodness sake, I have made it clear I accept there is a lack of ****ing PPE. My point is around ventilators, beds etc that are in plentiful supply and no one has died due to a lack of these items.

Lack of PPE alone doesn't kill people, it potentially spreads the virus.

 

You don't believe shortages of beds and equipment have caused unnecessary deaths whether staff, patients care home or at home? That's how I read your comment. That's what I disagree with. Others with frontline experience do so to.

 

There is a lack of ventilators, beds and trained staff. Oh plus tests and labs.

 

I am not sure I follow you.

Hospitals have beds and equipment - I am not sure that can be disputed. They are busier, but not yet desparate. I have no idea about care homes or normal home - sounds unlikely. I would think if someone is unwell at home or in a care home, they can go to a hospital.

How do you expect medical equipment in care homes or normal homes?

 

Tests and labs shortages are not killing anyone.

Where are the lack of ventilators? Lack of beds? Trained staff are coming back into frontline healthcare to support - that is quite frankly ridiculous to complain about that when this hit every country like a freight train.

How many of these items are they lacking. How many people died as they didn't have one?

I simply don't believe this. I am not saying it wont happen, but I am not sure it has yet.

 

You can just imagine Trump at his next press conference:

'I've heard what the Germany people are saying. They talk about 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 and numbers like that. Here in the USA I've made our numbers so small. So tiny. Smaller than any number you've ever seen. Less than 0.1. In fact less than 0. Our number is -5. The coronavirus isn't infecting us anymore, we're now infecting the coronavirus. For every one person, we infect FIVE coronavirus particles. Therefore I'm lifting the isolation, and instead i'm isolating the coronaparticles. It's bad for the coronaparticle economy but it's good for the American economy. It's fair to say I've saved our country, in fact the world. '

 

The rate of infection and death in care homes will, in the end, probably exceed that in the general population by several orders of magnitude because most of them up until now have insufficient PPE, so if one person gets it, it will spread like wildfire. The staff in care homes cannot, for example, change gowns and masks for every individual intervention because they just don’t have enough. Cross infection therefore becomes highly probable. The homes run by charities will probably be slightly better off than the ones run for profit but not by much.

Hospitals have been running at 95% capacity for the last few years anyway, so “just getting busier” isn’t really possible. The extra capacity has been achieved by stopping many of the routine stuff like clinics and elective surgery.

 

I don't so much disagree, but there are different ways of looking at things.

We can surely all agree, this aint easy for anyone, any country or leader. I don't class Trump as a leader btw...

 

How about a, wait for it, badge.

 

I'd take that one step further. Sufficient PPE, but worn incorrectly will also kill people in the end. In my own case, as you know, we make medical equipement, sanitary sprays, smart medical beds, etc... As soon as we enter the building we are supposed to have masks and gloves on, or, as an alternative for the hands, cleaned with sanitary product every 1-2 hours. But you should see the number of people who wear the face masks just covering their mouths but below their noses. And there is one person who wears the face mask like a chinstrap only. She has said that she shall cover her face any time someone comes to talk to her. But I've never seen her do it yet, and I've been intrigued at her lack of back up to her statement, so that's bull. Now, the thing is, I am looking after the shopping needs of 5 self isolating retired people, one of whom recently recovered from prostate cancer, so his immune system is at a low ebb, and another who has ongoing leukaemia treatment. If I unknowingly pass Covid-19 to those two especially, they will die.
There are others in our building doing the same incorrect wearing of the PPE. So what can I say to these people who might as well take their masks off. I have gone to the manager, who has again instructed people on the correct wearing of the masks, etc... To little positive response. Yet they'd all be mortified if they passed the virus along. But getting through to people is very difficult when they're not prepared to listen, when think they know better, despite zero evidence, or evidence to the contrary. Because these people gamble, or hope for the best, vulnerable people might die.

Oh, and they take their masks off at break time through peer pressure [ie, if he or she does it, then I'll do it]. Obviously any virus is bound to realise this and stand down from infecting them during break time too.

 

I never said that we were lacking beds. My point is that any charity helping support social situations like food banks is a failure of government to provide for their citizens. I agree with acting a week earlier or buying in bulk with the EU which you mention would have saved lives.