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Joelinton is CRAP

Discussion in 'Newcastle United' started by Hugh Briss, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Moot point because we don't have a striker who is fit. Being honest I think I'd go how Bruce is now. However whether we play 3 or 4 at the back, I don't see Joelinton playing if people were fit. We've bought a guy who has played wide of a front three his entire career. We have two guys better than him in that role in Saint Maximin and Almiron. How you set up in 3 at the back is important, and I'd like to see Almiron and Saint Maximin given much looser roles which doesn't involve them doubling up wide so much. Try to at least get around Joelinton. We're too easy to mark as it stands. The legs and mobility of Rose/Lazarro should allow that so you still have width.

    Simply stated I think Gayle is our best striking option looking at the squad - he is just always injured though. Same with Carroll and this is why Bruce has had to continue putting Joelinton there regardless if it suits him, he wants it or form. I also think our scouting team have convinced everyone who matters this guy can do this role. This is despite him looking massively uncomfortable with his back to goal, him not making or understanding striker type runs, him not showing any kind of striking instinct in the box. Its like we've looked at him and thought "He's a big lad, he'll make a good number 9" instead of actually analysing what in his game he did well. I think the stick Joelinton is taking is largely unfair and is actually down to a dysfunctional club. I'm not saying the fans are wrong to question whether he has 40m ability. I just think judging him based on how we are using him is massively unfair.

    The team all round just doesn't function though because we don't have a ball winning midfielder. I said in the summer the single most important signing was a ball winner to get the best from Longstaff. Sean has struggled but regardless he won't pull up trees without a functioning midfield. People bang on and on about the striker and we do need one. However until we get a destructive midfield to do the ball players work, you're pissing in the wind anyway. I mean you can play Hayden but he isn't good enough with the ball, end of story. Shelvey, Longstaff, Bentaleb all just sit deep. Its why if we did sign a ball winner, I think Matty might actually be the best option. He is a better footballer than Sean, and naturally links play better.

    There is a complete lack of understanding of how to build a football team. This goes back to your scouting network and the knitting of the whole system together. Given we only buy to make profit and survive, this won't change until the owner leaves.
     
    #201
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  2. Roland Deschain

    Roland Deschain Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much spot on and how I see it. The clamour from fans for a striker is ridiculous, you have to do as you say look back through the phases of play to get to the issue.

    I think the Lazaro/Rose idea is right, but was it necessary particularly on the right? Manq and Yedlin's not great but if they didn't have a winger in front of them they could get up and down that side all day long. They're both top flight footballers - crossing will improve with confidence and players in the box. It's not like a pro footballer can't cross it. Fernandez, Clark and even Dubravka can cross a ball better than most people.

    It begins with a DM. There's absolutely no surprise that the best teams in this league all have that. Ndidi, Kante, Fernandinho, Henderson, Matic to name a few. It's almost a direct correlation between quality of DM and placement in the league. I don't know why we can't mould Matty into that. He's tenacious, tough, pacey and can run all day. The best DM's aren't units, they're terriers - Matty could fit really well into that with a bit of discipline and he can play. He's vocal too so could push others further forward, which is what Longstaff prefers and Bentaleb should be capable further forward too. Jonjo's been our best player when more advanced as well, because they can play really dangerous passes. As long as you have Matty sitting, why not? I'd then have Hayden as his understudy.
     
    #202
  3. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    I have to say any mention of Yedlin being a top flight footballer makes me shudder. Not in any way shape or form for me. He is a top flight runner maybe, but in terms of technical ability, I'm not even convinced he is Championship. His crossing is sunday league. The big difference between him and Lazaro/Rose is a brain. Yedlin doesn't have one and so his ventures forward are normally ill thought out. He is also a penalty waiting to happen because he thinks his pace gets him out of ****. It doesn't it just means he arrives late to the party and at a pace he has no control over. Both Rose and Lazaro made more educated moves forward, for all they ran out of gas by half time.

    Manquillo for me is ill suited to a back three for all I think he did a steady job for a while. He looks a right back to me. I have to say I wrote him off as he was so bad it was scary. Credit to the lad though he has really stuck at it to the point where you don't notice him much.

    Hayden looks a centre back playing in midfield.

    Personally I think we need to get away from the idea there is a PL standard ball winner in amongst our ranks. There isn't. Matty is terrific little prospect but he will not hound people or have the physical capacity to fill that role. Its just not his game at all and we should concentrate on getting him functioning as the ball player in direct competition with his brother. He has shown a capacity for that. Being tall isn't a necessity as Kante and Makelele prove, but certainly in the main it helps. In general trying to convert someone into a different type of player falls flat on its face. For every Jamie Carragher, there are countless others where the experiment has to be ditched. Our fans are particularly guilty of this, but that's only because Mike has conditioned people into his shoestring methods. We've had suggestions of Schar, Coloccini previously, plus many others. Absolutely nonsensical and is simply about the club having a crap recruitment policy.

    We should really sign two DMs. One at their peak to make an instant impact, and one young to learn and take over the role. Like proper clubs and all that. Even if we retained Hayden as back up it would be fine though.
     
    #203
  4. Roland Deschain

    Roland Deschain Well-Known Member

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    Well interestingly, we tried to buy (allegedly) Boubakary Soumare. He is exactly what we're talking about, a Ndidi type defensive midfielder. So perhaps the intent is there, it's just deeply flawed in not having plan b, c or d when the move fails?
     
    #204
  5. Hung Drawn and Quartered

    Hung Drawn and Quartered Well-Known Member

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    Just like how Brucie works the first team :emoticon-0181-fubar
     
    #205
  6. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    I commend the club for trying if they were serious. I'm not saying they weren't but it could easily be a PR stunt. Lets not pretend half of Europe aren't interested. Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool, Man C, PSG, Bayern are among those looking. Best will in the world, I don't think we sit comfortably in that little list. So did we ever REALLY think we could get him? So yeah we may have bid 45m knowing Lille would accept, but full in the knowledge the player has already much better options. Worst case scenario he says yes, and then we sell him in 18 months for 60m. Although the latter part is flawed because we will probably reverse develop him.
     
    #206
  7. Roland Deschain

    Roland Deschain Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to know wtf went on with Joelinton. Will bug me forever that one, we'll never know.
     
    #207
  8. Graham Carr's Binoculars

    Graham Carr's Binoculars Well-Known Member

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    We should play 4231. Almiron is useless on the right. His spree of goals came when ASM was injured and he was shifted left/centrally. Joelinton should play wide (right/left it doesn't matter), ASM should play the other side and Almiron as a 10. Gayle should then play up top.

    I'm of the opinion that Joelinton is a good player, not a 40m player and never in a million years is he a 'lead the line' striker but he's good at protecting the ball, he can carry it well and he's got good energy. He's just not a player that can play with his back to goal, he was never that when playing in Germany so it's bizarre that we signed him for that role.
     
    #208
  9. Albert's Chip Shop

    Albert's Chip Shop Top Grafter
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    Hello mate, long time no see. Hope you are keeping well.
     
    #209
  10. Graham Carr's Binoculars

    Graham Carr's Binoculars Well-Known Member

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    Good cheers bud...yeah reckon it might've been a couple years since I last posted! Been keeping a watching brief though :emoticon-0148-yes:
     
    #210
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  11. Delusional Full Stop

    Delusional Full Stop Here to serve all your counselling needs.
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    Not really. Bizarre for other Clubs. Par for the course for us.
     
    #211
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  12. Dr Van Helsing

    Dr Van Helsing Well-Known Member

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    Looks like we might be getting shot of him... Probs out on loan?
     
    #212
  13. G4rdToonArmy

    G4rdToonArmy Well-Known Member

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    Apparently he's quarantining having come back from Brazil so won't see him for a week or so. Can't imagine we'll loan him out when our other options are the perenial injured Dwight Gayle, Yoshinoro (whothefookareyou) Muto and Andy Carroll.

    At present I'd say AC is the lead as a one up top. Gayle behind in the pecking order or alongside him. Joelinton should be used as a wide inside froward opposite Maxi. Big Joe is a good player but not a striker - and certainly not a striker to lead a line with no support behind him unless we are in a crisis (which is likely if the other 3 are the strikers we are going into the season with...)
     
    #213
  14. Roland Deschain

    Roland Deschain Well-Known Member

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    We desperately, desperately need a striker. If Bruce sticks with Joelinton up front because some ****wit thought he might turn into a striker, we're all in trouble. However, he should get a run in an attacking 3 behind a main man. We need to somehow find our own version of Jimenez, then play Joelinton, Almiron and ASM behind that player. With Ritchie a reasonable enough sub that's alright at our level. But Gayle's NUFC career is now over thanks to 3-4 months out, Carroll is an 'option', not a starter, and Muto should be offloaded (but won't be). Wherever we find one, however we do it, the club needs a centre forward who can put chances away.
     
    #214
  15. Dr Van Helsing

    Dr Van Helsing Well-Known Member

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    We need a proper goalscorer... None of our fwd players are goalscorers... ASM is worse than **** in the final 3rd... Miggy was actually not too bad the second half of last season at least he chips in with a few goals
     
    #215
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  16. Dr Van Helsing

    Dr Van Helsing Well-Known Member

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    He's going to score tonight
     
    #216
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  17. Hung Drawn and Quartered

    Hung Drawn and Quartered Well-Known Member

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    are the Selhurst Hookers allowed on the street ?
     
    #217
  18. Dr Van Helsing

    Dr Van Helsing Well-Known Member

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    1st scorer Joelinton cutting in from the left into the bottom right
     
    #218
  19. Hugh Briss

    Hugh Briss Well-Known Member

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    I really didn't think there was any mileage in this thread.

    It was my deep belief that Joelinton would become as prolific as Shearer (Duncan) and lead tha Toooon ta gloreeeeee....
     
    #219
  20. Dr Van Helsing

    Dr Van Helsing Well-Known Member

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    Tonight's the night Joelinton finally produces
     
    #220
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