Off Topic The Goodhand Arms

They’re now pulling back on that. I hope it’s not true. Journalists really must take responsibility over trying to be first.

 

Oh hell no. That's horrendously tragic if so.

 

Sounds like one of them was. I’m going to shut up now. The truth will out. Tragic.

 

Oh no!

 

Oh I just went to find the general sports thread for this. Sorry for the repeat. Terrible news.

 

Now been confirmed that nine people died on the helicopter.

One was Kobe Bryant, one other was his daughter Gianna. She was 13.

The other seven remain unidentified but no other members of the Bryant family are understood to have been onboard.

 

Did anyone watch the programme about smart motorways on Panorama BBC 1 tonight? It's been obvious to anybody with ounce of sense they were going to result in avoidable deaths but still they went ahead and more are planned. 38 people have been killed on smart motorways in the last 5 years yet Highways England insist they are no more dangerous than an ordinary motorway. Quite honestly they (HE) and The Department of Transport both have blood on their hands. Grant Shapps the Transport Secretary says he has concerns about safety and has ordered a review, (big ****ing deal) in the meantime smart motorways continue to be used and every motorist on them are at serious risk.
On one section of the M25 near misses have increased 20 fold since the hard shoulder was removed. A "near miss" is counted every time there is an incident with "the potential to cause injury or ill health".
Edmund King, the AA president, said the current system was not fit for purpose. He added: “The real scandal is the avoidable deaths – people who have broken down in a live lane and been unable to move until a vehicle has ploughed into the back of them.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51236375

 

These deaths are also being caused by stupidity. People ignore the red x's that signal a lane is shut. They ignore the speed limits on smart motorways. People don't have their cars serviced. They don't change their tyres regularly enough. I would guess a significant amount of those deaths would not have happened if everyone stuck to the speed limit and obeyed the signs. Driving in a closed lane is inexcusable. The main problem is not with the smart motorways. It's the idiots who don't know how to use them correctly.

 

Doesn't matter if 'smart' motorways are made dangerous because of human error or stupidity...if the design increases human error and is prone to misunderstanding in people driving at up to 70 mph, it is a bad idea. It is well known that even normal hard shoulders can be dangerous...how much more so when it is possible to drive on them when open. Daft idea...no point in being self righteous about it....roads should be designed for the people likely to drive on them....not the hypothetical ideal driver.

 

The hard shoulder was once considered necessary to protect people's lives, it's there for a reason but now it's seen as unimportant. The part of your post I've highlighted is probably true in some cases but even so, breaking down or a flat tyre shouldn't result in being killed. Two people were killed after a minor accident forced them to stop, hardly their fault.

The system relies on a stationary vehicle being noticed and the lane being closed. In the meantime you are a sitting duck.This is from the link posted above "Nationally, motorists currently have to wait an average of 17 minutes to be spotted, and a further 17 minutes before they are rescued". In one case mentioned on Panorama the car was hit 45 seconds after stopping, the red crosses wouldn't even be on. To suddenly meet a stationary car at a possible 70mph is going to cause most drivers some serious problems.

Another thing to consider is access for the emergency services. If a serious accident has resulted in the traffic coming to a complete stop how does an ambulance get through without the hard shoulder?

 

If you are unlucky enough to have a fault which causes the car to stop and you can’t get the 1/2 mile (minimum) to the safety pull off, you have absolutely no chance. These so called “Smart” motorways are there for one reason only - to make money from the increased use of cameras and variable speed limits (some of which are used even when there is little or no traffic)
I was on the M3 a few days ago and there was a car stopped in what normally would have been the breakdown lane just past the Camberley turnoff. It was chaos with lorries pulling out to get round him (or her), drivers hitting brakes to avoid them and no one knowing what the **** was going on. It had obviously just happened as there was no sign of any police there - if it takes that long to get noticed then I pity the poor sod in the car. Personally I’d have legged it as far as away as possible - but some of these crazy places don’t even have enough room to get off the bloody road! It’s utter madness. Always said that and I’ll never change my opinion. If I could avoid going on them I would do. Have to do a few stretches of them next weekend on a journey up to Burnley ...... not looking forward to it at all .....

 

Yes it's an insane project and there's no sign of them being stopped. Driving along the M27 is bad enough with the 50mph speed limit in place while the 'smart motorway' changes are made, so god only knows what it will be like when the 70mph limit returns. I must admit that I have reduced my car travel drastically over the past couple of years. it's just a pain to drive anywhere in the South these days and even the minor roads seem busier than ever.

I do feel for anyone who has to travel by car because of work and sitting in heavy traffic, breathing in the car and truck fumes is really noticeable, as is the ever poorer standard of driving. How long it will take for the government to actually do anything about it is anyone's guess but nothing will be done quickly. My gut feeling is once these smart motorways are here, they will be here to stay. It is madness and it will just lead to more and more fatal accidents.

As you say Dave ..... utter madness.

 

Awful idea, awful implementation, utterly idiotic that anybody, ever thought they were a good idea.

 

R.I.P Nicholas Parsons .

96 .

 

So sad. Just A Minute will never be the same again.

RIP

 

Indeed .

Can’t wait to hear what Jack Dee has to say . Always gently ribbed the All around the world bit

 

The long term idea is Robotaxis. Where we just summon a driverless car 5 mins before we need it and it costs a fraction of an Uber.
Then we have to get as many people working from home as we can, instead of ignoring that potential ever since we've had decent speed broadband. That'll clear the roads of much traffic.
Oh, and using a Robotaxi will be a lot cheaper than owning a car

 

The problem with smart motorways is the here and now, and they are killing people. The 'robotaxi' is not even on the horizon and to many it's just fantasy land. The initial enthusiasm for the development of autonomous transport systems has met with hard reality and is no longer seen by even the most ardent tech geek as the cure all it once was. There is not a single autonomous transport system operating anywhere. Not even trains which run on fixed rails and would be far easier to automate. People do not trust total automation.

Working from home does reduce traffic, no doubt about that at all but it also presents its own issues. A lot of people enjoy working with other people and not everyone is suited to working in what can quickly become a very isolating existence. Trust me, I have been running my own business for many years and mostly work from home, and after a while it eats a hole in your head. If it wasn't for customers popping in and also having the free time to meet up with friends during the week I would have gone batty. Fortunately I am no longer under any financial pressure to work flat out so I get to choose when and for how long I work. A lot of people working from home find it harder than having colleagues in a defined workplace. It certainly isn't for everyone.

I get your enthusiasm for technology TSS but as you might have guessed, I am far more reserved about it. I have also rarely come across any 'new thing' that costs a fraction of what it intends to replace. To my mind it usually means it's another opportunity to hike prices and for marketing men to sell invisible benefits, which quickly turn out to be based on empty promises.

 

Is it also that time of year, where the councils are using up their budgets and putting temp lights blocking roads so some guys can lean on some shovels? Just got back from what should have been a 40 minute trek, took an hour and a half! Annoying.