1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Match Day Thread Toon v Oxford United / Oxford v Toon

Discussion in 'Newcastle United' started by Albert's Chip Shop, Jan 21, 2020.

  1. Welshie

    Welshie Chavcunt fanboy dickhead

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    25,459
    Likes Received:
    23,602
    I truly do not understand why people care so much about this. It matters not if on paper its 4-4-2 or whatever. It's the individual instructions that the players as a whole are given during different phases of the game.

    First of all, the biggest substantive difference between Rafa and Bruce, beyond how we still play an incredibly defensive style, is that Rafa is an exceptionally hands on manager. He doesn't like too much player freedom on the ball and likes players to stick to positions, he is a very organised manager. This is actually quite old fashioned nowadays. Both Klopp and Pep while sticking to a philosophy do allow their incredibly talented players to show off their talent by giving them more freedom of expression.

    Bruce is less demanding on his players, they don't need to be so rigid in attack sticking to a very specific play style as it was under Rafa. A Shelvey goal earlier in the season was specifically scored because SHELVEY saw the opportunity and took it on himself to make and score the goal, Bruce praised his initiative and said he's a smart lad. A more recent goal against Wolves by Almiron was much different than any we have scored all season... because it was a spur of the moment move which the players initiated and they scored from it.

    This is the key difference of philosophy, which is why the Bruce is a dinosaur complaints are just lazy.

    He is adhering to a much more modern style of coaching, which encourages top players making top decisions and coaches instilling and encouraging those tactics. This reason is why now, our clearly **** players are struggling when under Rafa they looked passable. In the stricter Rafa system (and this is praising him btw), Atsu, Ki, and others were better protected and their short comings were harder to spot. They knew their role, they kept to that role and they didn't wander. Now, initiative is being introduced, and those players that simply aren't premier league quality are more stranded, and don't have that consistent support network of players and a specific tight role.

    In my opinion, there's a clear reason why our best players now are playing better, and our worst players now look completely worthless. It's a distinct change of philosophy on the training pitch. Completely irrespective of the formation.

    And no, I'm not saying Bruce is a world class manager. Just he's not as **** as people are claiming.
     
    #61
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  2. Southerner

    Southerner Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2019
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    155
    These things change. Rafa played 4-4-2 with inverted wingers, the same 'formation' as Bournemouth were using, but they were almost chalk and cheese in practise. When Rafa went to 3 at the back, many teams big and small were already doing the same, for a number of different reasons, with wildly different playing styles.
    For what it's worth, I believe Bruce will eventually play 4-1-3-2 most of the time. Currently he has neither enough fit players, or indeed enough key players for that.
    All that said, good managers change strategy all of the time, and the 'formation' is largely for the team sheet and all of us 'tactical experts' on the interweb to have debates about.
    It could also be said that Bruce has more options than most managers, in that they often sacrifice a striker to shore up midfield or defence in tough/away games. As we don't have a striker currently, it's all Elton John :)
     
    #62
  3. Roland Deschain

    Roland Deschain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    10,450
    Likes Received:
    9,351
    The only reason I ask - and let's take Liverpool as an extreme example - is that for all the fluidity you mention, which is a coaching 'thing', I can tell you now they will line up with a back four, high full backs, a front three, holding midfielder. I don't watch Liverpool, but I know that. I can tell you without looking that Burnley will go 4-4-2. I know Leicester will line up with a kind of 4-1-4-1, but with fluid players - as you say - in Maddison or Perez coming in from wide.

    What this means is that your recruitment strategy will make sense. Leicester have Mendy and Ndidi, for example, on their books because rather than piss about with a formation, they build a squad to maximise a way of playing. Then it's minor tweaks depending on opposition, and reliance on PL class players to make the right runs/calls and read a game.

    Newcastle, though? Joelinton, what the **** is he, what is he supposed to be doing? We're 24 games in and nobody, including Bruce, has a clue. We seem to play somewhere between 5-4-1 and 3-5-2. But mainly 5-4-1. At CB we seem well stocked with better players, so it does make sense to continue with 3 at the back. But then it gets confusing. St Max would presumably be better right side of a front three. But so would, probably, Joelinton. And now Lazaro. And Atsu. Left side of a front three arguably suits Almiron and no-one else, yet he's rarely over there. LWB was sorted, then Willems disappeared, so right winger - our fourth - Ritchie is there. We're not buying a LWB, though, even though we don't have one and play that way. Then there's the CM issue. We've now got 5 players for 2 spaces. Only one of our strikers suits any variation of these systems, yet we're not buying one that does.

    I'm not saying "what's the formation" to beat up Bruce. I'm saying it because it seems to be at a complete juxtaposition to our recruitment strategy, which is ****ing madness.
     
    #63
  4. Freddd

    Freddd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    4,517
    Likes Received:
    1,162
    It's enjoyable to watch us win.

    Also, getting to the final is possible - - unlikely but 3 kind draws and/or Chelsea style undeserved wins is not outside the realm of statistical anomalies. A final, irrespective of the outcome, would be my best NUFC memory for at least a decade.

    And we're almost safe.
     
    #64
  5. Somebodys pinched my sombrero

    Somebodys pinched my sombrero Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    9,010
    Likes Received:
    7,280
    Game now sold out. Incredible!
     
    #65
  6. Judge Death

    Judge Death Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    5,508
    Likes Received:
    5,764
    From nufc.com

    New boy Nabil Bentaleb is eligible to play but registration formalities for fellow loan arrival Valentino Lazaro deal weren't completed in time.

    DeAndre Yedlin and Allan Saint-Maximin could feature, but Andy Carroll is very doubtful. Paul Dummett, Jetro Willems and Dwight Gayle all remain sidelined, while Tuesday's draw at Everton cost us the services of Florian Lejeune and Emile Krafth.

    The Frenchman tweaked his groin scoring his acrobatic opener at Goodison, while the Swede is set to miss the next six weeks after a cowardly challenge by Dominic Calvert-Lewin left him with ankle ligament damage.

    There's been no mention of Yoshinori Muto, Ki or Javier Manquillo, so presumably they are also unavailable.
     
    #66
  7. Delusional Full Stop

    Delusional Full Stop Here to serve all your counselling needs.
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    27,721
    Likes Received:
    22,613
    Traitor !!!! You wouldn’t catch me copying from another site.

    <grr>








    :bandit:
     
    #67
  8. Judge Death

    Judge Death Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    5,508
    Likes Received:
    5,764
    At least I acknowledged where it came from ... <whistle>
     
    #68
    Albert's Chip Shop likes this.
  9. Albert's Chip Shop

    Albert's Chip Shop Top Grafter
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    72,363
    Likes Received:
    37,729
    We’re ****ed.
     
    #69
  10. JulioGeordio90

    JulioGeordio90 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2018
    Messages:
    394
    Likes Received:
    341
    Strong lineup. Almiron and ASM both playing.
     
    #70

  11. Hung Drawn and Quartered

    Hung Drawn and Quartered Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    19,185
    Likes Received:
    16,133
    Darlow
    Schar
    lescelles
    clarke
    yedlin
    ritchie
    sean longstaff
    almiron
    st.maxim
    Joelinton

    bentaleb - starts but hasn't played in months ???
     
    #71
  12. Somebodys pinched my sombrero

    Somebodys pinched my sombrero Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    9,010
    Likes Received:
    7,280
    Should be strong enough <ok>
     
    #72
  13. Hung Drawn and Quartered

    Hung Drawn and Quartered Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    19,185
    Likes Received:
    16,133
    Just got inside the ground
    Witnessed 2 Oxford fans being nicked for drugs offences they only looked about 16 year old

    Sniffer dogs 2 - 0 oxford fans
     
    #73
  14. Somebodys pinched my sombrero

    Somebodys pinched my sombrero Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    9,010
    Likes Received:
    7,280
    You on the telly this afternoon, or are they concentrating on the match?
     
    #74
  15. Somebodys pinched my sombrero

    Somebodys pinched my sombrero Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    9,010
    Likes Received:
    7,280
    I got stopped by a sniffer dog down Burnley a few weeks ago.
    Coppers said “my dogs telling me you’re on drugs”
    I said “I am? You’re the one with the talking dog”.
     
    #75
  16. Albert's Chip Shop

    Albert's Chip Shop Top Grafter
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    72,363
    Likes Received:
    37,729
    a copper at an away day asked if I had a drug problem once. I said not at all officer I have plenty.. s you wanna but some?

    *I’m joking
     
    #76
  17. cronemeister

    cronemeister Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,370
    Likes Received:
    6,804
    **** me, any kids being taken to this for their first game for a quid are gonna be scarred for life and likely never to return!
     
    #77
    Schlem Boogerman likes this.
  18. Southerner

    Southerner Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2019
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    155
    And it's showing :)
     
    #78
  19. Darren Peacock’s Ponytail

    Darren Peacock’s Ponytail Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    30,685
    Likes Received:
    20,323
    Are we still ****?
     
    #79
    cronemeister likes this.
  20. cronemeister

    cronemeister Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,370
    Likes Received:
    6,804
    We're not even that good today!
     
    #80
    Flash likes this.

Share This Page