Off Topic General Election Special

I don’t have direct and granular policy influence in the Labour Party sadly. I was clearly discussing the potential of the idea, with some speculation granted – as no one has clearly mapped it yet. I think it's refreshing for a prospective government to outline its vision, its plans beyond the next term.

As said, it’s an ambition - like ALL changes in working conditions once were – no matter how people once viewed them. If you look at the history of workers’ rights you’ll see opposition throughout along with protestations of it not being able to be done. Even the stuff we take for granted now.

And in a de-regulated economy (this ‘new’ WDA does not guarantee related EU legislation on workers’ rights) a government with a majority can do what they want.

This current government do not like workers’ rights. They interfere with profits for one. Anything can happen and people need to be aware of this.

Here are a couple of select quotes from current cabinet ministers:

“Workers’ rights are obstacles to business” and “UK workers are the worst idlers in the world” Dominic Raab et al.

“I envisage there being absolutely no regulation whatsoever – no minimum wage, no maternity or paternity rights, no unfair dismissal rights, no pension rights – for the smallest companies that are trying to get off the ground” Angela Leadsom

Boris' opinions of the working-class are well documented and there are many more quotes I could offer.

If you are a worker voting Conservative - just be aware of what you might be voting for.

 

Eh? He’s always been pro-Labour.

So when did he suddenly come out with this then? Must have been years ago (if at all). Be interested if you could pinpoint me to this time.

And it sort of contradicts your claim to have been a Labour voter up to Blair too. Strange.

Tip for the day: you really should listen to people with different views – you learn stuff directly and indirectly.

 

Some good point there Ric. I'm sorry that you obviously feel let down by the labour movement. I have many misgivings of its past too, particularly the PLP of New Labour.

I think with regard pay and workers' rights - these will remain the same. I would also envisage (just speculating) that people will work for longer - by choice.

It's tough to answer of the NHS and I guess it will be a discussion for the future (if Labour succeed).

Have a look at these regarding productivity:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...t-became-permanent-at-this-company-2018-10-06

https://theconversation.com/economi...rch-shows-it-can-save-businesses-money-126701

 

I agree - it is the fake news part which has become the main story and the massive concern.

Is it homegrown or is it foreign powers dabbling? Maybe if the Russian Dossier hadn’t been held back we would have a better idea.

Independent analysis has shown that the Tories themselves are consistently lying. There is always spin and EVERY party uses that – but outright lies? Straight out Putin and Trump esque tactics.

If Labour were doing that, I could never support them. Never. I’d vote elsewhere or just spoil the ballot.

It does seem, in this election, that some people just aren’t concerned with ‘truth’, evidence or fairplay.

A genuine watershed in our democracy and a damning truth about our society.

 

I remember listening to a James O'Brien LBC show and is about all algorithms on social media have helped fuel far right eco chamber's.

So to avoid a left wing eco chamber. I went and followed Breitbart, Trump, Tommy Robinson, Nigel Farage from the right and mainstream journalist like Kuenssberg and Peston.

 

The main bit I can't understand is, people claim the Labour manifesto is fully costed, yet they have no idea the costs of re-nationalising multiple companies and industries.

There is no costing towards the loss of tax from a 32 hour week, because there will be none due to productive increases. There is nowhere near enough research to state this, they are making a huge policy decision based on minimal research. Our company has 60 employees, and we don't have enough evidence to state whether a 4 day week would work, so god knows how the government does.

So to claim the Labour manifesto is fully costed is ludicrous and incorrect.

The other I can't get my head around is how me paying more tax because I earn more is "fair". Surely "fair" would be every individual paying the same percentage, no matter what income level they are? Also you don't need to be earning £80k to get an increase in tax, that is an absolute myth, anyone who takes dividends will see an increase in the tax they pay. Little Old John a one man Ltd company earning 20k could see his tax increase.

The definition of fair - To treat people equally without favoritism or discrimination - not sure how increasing tax for certain people but not others is fair.

I am not a huge fan of any parties, as none of them represent my views. I class myself as slightly right of centre and that is certainly not represented by the Tories, or the Liberals and definitely not Labour. Which is very tricky, but I will make sure I vote.

I am not trying to persuade people how to vote, we all have opinions, but I have some huge inconsistencies in the Labour manifesto and campaign that really worries me.

 

Already does

 

The people who know best telling you not to vote for labour

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-12-11...lls-advert-to-urge-voters-not-to-back-corbyn/

I would agree with them but they advocate voting for other parties, so they’re still morons.

 

It’s an embarrassment that they were ever part of the Labour Party – and most jumped before pushed and no wonder Labour lost chunks of the confidence of working people.

This is a tweet from Ian Austin:

please log in to view this image

 

Also, for balance.

John Major, Michael Heseltine and Kenneth Clarke have either urged voters to not vote Tory, or vote for someone else.

Plus, the endorsements for The Labour Party are wide ranging across cultural and social life, as mentioned earlier in thread:

Don't forget Stephen Hawking backed Corbyn 2017

Plus now a range from Naomi Klein to Norm Chomsky. From Steve Coogan to Rob Delaney.

From Brian Eno to Roger Waters.

Brian Eno - what the **** does he know?

Lots it seems.

 

Is that real ^^^^^^^

WOW!

 

It's a good thing to do.

I struggle to click on the likes of The Sun's links usually, but it is important to know the full picture.

 

But are the motives different? As in John Major et al are pro remain? Without me checking.

 

They are all pro-Remain.

But attack Johnson on many issues.

For instance, ex PM John Major said of Johnson/Gove et al. "The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with a hungry python."

 

Of course Labour tell lies. They all tell countless lies.

 

I said Labour spin. All parties spin.

But the Conservatives set out to deliberately mislead. Think Trump. Think Putin. This is not a British way of doing things: to lie and cheat.

This has been widely reported:

https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/10/inve...ry-ads-misleading-compared-0-labour-11651802/

 

I don't see how Steve Coogan (for instance) supporting Labour has any relevance to anything.

 

Labour say their manifesto is fully costed. That is a lie.

 

That can be true, depending upon your viewpoint I suppose.

I love Coogan's work. He's been massively influential and continues to be so.