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Ivan Gazidis - as deluded as Wenger !! No wonder we are going backwards.

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by theHotHead, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. theHotHead

    theHotHead New Member

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    Gazidis is quoted on BBC.com as saying:

    "He didn't suddenly become a bad manager or out of touch. That's nonsense."

    "If we get into short-termism we will do more damage to the club."

    "The club is not in crisis"

    "If we went out and spent all our money we would make bad decisions, so we've been restrained."


    Gazidis is a bloody idiot !

    Wenger has slowly been losing the plot, everybody knows this. From his absurd refusal to offer our best players over 30 years old more than a year's contract to selling good players and bringing in mediocre ones, his refusal to change with the times is damaging the club. no he didn't suddenly become a bad manager he has for the last 6 years !

    Short term-ism ?? We've been patient, looking at the mid term, giving time for these kids to mature and become the players Wenger claimed they would. Short term-ism ? Gazidis is having a laugh. He should stick to american football because he knows nada about real football. How is 6 years short term-ism ?

    The club is not in crisis ? 1 place and 1 point above relegation ?? Worst start to a campaign in 58 years ??

    Restrained - not buying players you should've bought pre-season, trying to hold on to players you had no chance of keeping, you've done more harm than good you buffoon !
     
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  2. I don't think you should sack Wenger. He should, at the very least be given another season, as well as this season to get the team to gel. Is it his fault that Fab left you? Is it his fault that your board wouldn't double Nasri's wages?

    He's had these changes forced upon him. I doubt that you'll ever have a Summer where you lose two of the best players in Europe. What a blow that was for Wenger, as it would have been for any team. Lesser managers would have capitulated, but we don't yet know if that's what will happen to Wenger, as it's too early to tell. You've got to let the after-shock subside and then re-assess where you are.

    When Benitez lost the dressing room, you just knew that it was over for him, and that his dismissal was only a matter of time. I don't get that feeling with Wenger.
     
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  3. Gazman coming out in support of Arsene reminds me of Hill-Wood telling Terry Neill he wouldn't be sacked only to have to break the bad news to his longtime friend before Christmas.

    I'm not sure if he and Arsene are natural pals and I'm not sure he knows very much about football either.



    PS - Cym will remember Terry Neill well. Neill was a youngster in Cym's days <laugh>
     
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  4. gunnersurprisepeople

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    Some good points there Hoddle, I feel another season after this might be pushing it though if this one ends in abject failure as it's threatening to do..
     
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  5. I don't think Arsene has lost the dressing room but how well are they connecting is what I think we would like to know. Synergy between the two has been a long time coming ( back ).
     
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  6. theHotHead

    theHotHead New Member

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    Was it his fault Fab left ?? Of course it was. He sold him ! He knew from the season before that Fabregas wanted to leave, in fact he knew when Fabregas joined us that he would want to go back home at some point.

    Clever management would've meant buying a replacement for Fab, he had the entire summer to do it but his delusional brain told him Fabregas wanted to stay. The same went for Nasri. Nothing was forced on Wenger at all. I'm not having a bar of it.

    Liverpool sold Torres, they didn't want to but cashed in nice and early and spent their money on replacements, clever management you see.
     
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  7. Kleinfeld

    Kleinfeld Member

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    Gazidis is a ****ing mong.
     
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  8. AdHominista

    AdHominista Member

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    I think you are mostly wrong on all accounts. Wenger had to hold out as long as he could in order to get the best possible price for both Cesc and Nasri. He would have destroyed his negotiating position had he publically admitted that he was looking to sell them, hence why he said the things that he did and waited as long as he did.

    I would ask you, armchair genius manager, just who exactly we could have brought in as a like-for-like replacement for Cesc? Such players do not exist, or rather they do, but they are already at either Barca or Real and certainly not going to leave them for us.

    We bought 5 new players at the end of the transfer window with money made from selling Cesc and Nasri. You compare us to Liverpool, but I wouldn't make the claim that £35 mill for Carroll is clever management, (although Suarez was a good bit of business I will admit).

    Furthermore in your OP you completely misunderstood what Gazidis meant by short-termism. Now I am not his biggest fan, but what he was basically saying that it is not in the best interests of the club (or the fans for that matter) to become reactionary and make hurried, rash decisions. In fact, he was warning against exactly the sort of hysterical conclusions you have arrived at.

    The club is not in crisis. What happened to Leeds, Portsmouth, or any club facing administration is a true crisis. We have just had a terrible start to the season. Perspective, you need to gain some.
     
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  9. Crises come in all forms and on form, this is a crisis.....


    Games since Carling Cup Final


    DDDWDDLWLLD to finish off the last season


    DLLWL to start the new season


    16 points in 16 games. That rather makes 38 points in 38 games. The bottom two teams of last year had 39 points each.


    Bit of a crisis I think...


    It's not the end of the world since we can still turn things round but we've been saying we can turn things round for a while now.
     
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  10. AdHominista

    AdHominista Member

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    "16 points in 16 games. That rather makes 38 points in 38 games. The bottom two teams of last year had 39 points each."

    While I am certainly not happy with the last 16 league games I will say that it is dangerous to extrapolate in this way. So many things can happen between now and the end of the season.

    Also over the last 10 seasons the average point total for survival has been 35 points. That leaves us comfortably safe even if your extrapolation proves correct (which I doubt it will be, no offence). Last season's relegation battle was a bit of an outlier in statistical terms
     
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  11. That we are even discussing the ( bottom ) end zone ( Yes I realise I started it ) shows how far we have come in the last half decade.

    Something needs to change and my view is that we could save Arsene the ignominy of having to go unwillingly. I'm not calling for him to go. Just saying that we need more than a modicum of changes, failing which a change of direction may be the most refreshing option for the club.
     
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  12. AdHominista

    AdHominista Member

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    Yeah it is depressing to even be discussing relegation. I have faith that we can turn this extended poor run of form around though. People have mentioned bringing in an assistant coach to work closely with the defenders. I think this would be a step in the right direction. Also the quick and healthy returns of Jack and Vermaelen would help strengthen the teams resolve.
     
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  13. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    You can also say waiting so long for extra millions and not planning proper replacements and pre season has messed up Arsenal. The fault lies soley on the management and Wenger. You can't blame Barca and Man City or anyone else, you are incharge of your destiny and it's up to you how you play it. We played it VERY badly and faced the consequences, just for the sake of a fist full of dollars more.....
     
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  14. theHotHead

    theHotHead New Member

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    I love it when big chops like yourself try to take me to task, you all learn the hard way :)

    1) Wenger could've set a deadline for Cesc's sale which would've shifted negotiations forward not backwards. I don't doubt everything would've happened the same way .. it just would've happened sooner giving time to replace Cesc. More clubs than Man City were interested in Nasri so had Wenger been willing to entertain bids a bidding war could've ensued meaning more money for selling Nasri ! Instead Wenger refused to discuss a sale or even admit he would sell so suitors turned away. You are wrong chap.

    2) Armchair genius manager ?? yaaawn. Tell you what chum, if I had a network of scouts around the world as Wenger does I could find a replacement for Cesc. Oh look ... Wenger did find a replacement for Cesc, Arteta ! You dummy. Like for like ? who said that ? The point was made, had Wenger sold Cesc early he would've had plenty of time to replace him and have those players for pre season and not have to throw them in at the deep end. That is called common sense !

    3) The reference to Liverpool was to highlight the fact that they took the early decision to sell Torres rather than fight a pointless battle, they bought players in that were able to start immediately and they benefited this season from having a pre season. It really isn't that complicated bloke. Sell early allows you to replace early.

    4) I fully understand what Gazidis means, changing manager is a short termist answer to problems used by many clubs owned/funded by sugar daddies, they want immediate results in the short term. I am saying that Wenger has had 6 years now to run his "project" and we are further now away from success than we were. I would class 6 years as mid term NOT short term, especially when you consider we'll need another 2 years at least before we become competitive. Thats 8 years .. hardly short term. He's had enough time to prove his methods work, clearly they don't.

    5) comparing us to Leeds and Portsmouth is stupidity ! We are in a crisis, we don't need to be in an extreme situation for it to be called a crisis.
     
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  15. I actually believe that you have a better team than LFC. Despite their having spent millions of pounds, there isn't one of their new buys that I would have at Spurs (if it meant replacing them with our existing players). The problem for Wenger, at the moment, is that he has a squad of players who no longer believe that they are good.
     
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  16. People are saying my friend but is Arsene listening? Had David Dein still been around there would almost be no doubt about changes being made. However those days are gone and while we await their return, Arsene has become autocratic but he doesn't see it. Wilshere and Vermaelen will be out for another couple of months I think. A couple of further additions during summer would have helped and the fault with that lies also with the board.
     
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  17. omogooner

    omogooner Well-Known Member

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    @Hothead, I like you! You talk a lot of sense...... Why can't we (Royal We), well Hothead have a forum with Wenger on our behalf and pose all these nagging questions to him, why can't the jurnos ask these sort of question? A lot of what Hothead says is common sense, it is not rocket science......
     
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  18. AdHominista

    AdHominista Member

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    Hothead,

    My my, you certainly do have a high opinion of yourself. No need to get aggressive.

    1. I am amazed by your in depth knowledge of the inner workings of Arsenals transfer dealings. How can you state categorically that we didn't shop Nasri around? Or for that matter that wengers statements turned off potential buyers? Remember a few summers back when SAF repeatedly claimed Ronaldo would never be sold? We all know how that turned out. Furthermore I distinctly remember Wenger setting the type of deadline you claim he should have. It didn't make a shred of difference. I get the feeling that you are claiming an extensive knowledge of arsenals transfer strategy based solely on what the media have reported and you imagine. As it stands, we got over twenty million for a player in the last year of his contract (Nasri) which is incredibly good business.

    2. You still haven't answered my question. Who would you sign that could replace Cesc? I know full well we signed arteta. But judging from your previous posts on this forum I get the impression that you think arteta is ****.

    3. As stated before, I do not think that Liverpool are a good team to hold up as a model of sound management. A lot of good their early buying spree did them. Only three points better off than arsenal so far and we have had our worst start to a league season in 53 years. A better comparison would be Man united.

    4. Short, medium or long term is all a matter of perspective. They have been playing football in this country for well over 100 years. In that respect, 6 years in definitely short term. It was made very clear during the stadium move that Arsenal would have to change their outlook as we incurred debt. The goal was long term stability without as much short to mid term success. 6 years may seem like a long time to you, but it is only a drop in the ocean.

    5. People have different opinions on what constitutes a crisis. This is a subjective matter. I do not think we are in a crisis. You and the media certainly do think so. That is your right and I respectfully disagree.
     
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  19. Henryforever

    Henryforever Guest

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    16 points in 16 games is relegation form. A bit of a crisis <doh> . Thats half a season of form WHERE WE WOULD GO DOWN.

    And very immature to call him an armchair genius manager. Does he not have a right to state his opinion without such a lame comeback? He could say the same about you, but that would be childish and pathetic.
     
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  20. robin_van_ fiberglass

    robin_van_ fiberglass Active Member

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    A crisis is what portsmouth were in a few years ago when it looked like they might go out of business. What we are in is just a poor period.

    As for Gazidis I agree with everything he says except for the last bit "If we went out and spent all our money we would make bad decisions, so we've been restrained.". There is no evidence for that and it just seems like excuses to me.
     
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