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Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Sheffield United

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by PleaseNotPoll, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
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    The worst thing about that game was the Sheffield goal that was disallowed by VAR or at least Moss who was judging it. Wrong in detail and wrong in timing, we've had them too both ways. It's spoiling the game as I feared and they need to get it rid of it but I doubt they will. They should at least look at how the CL use it which seems to be slightly better.

    Spurs finally turned it on in the last 10 minutes. You have to ask why. Kane looked knackered all game and once again Lucas was a live wire as soon as he came on. Surely he must come on earlier? Dier and Davies both need a run in the team to get their form back and although Dier's passing was not up to scratch at least he realised that playing out from the back was not working and was trying to find the long pass. Davies left us exposed at the back with Sheffield finding it easy to get down our left wing almost at will. Very lucky to get a draw out that.
     
    #121
    Hoddle is a god likes this.
  2. I do.
     
    #122
  3. Roo

    Roo Well-Known Member

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    Nailed it here, CK. <ok>
    I’ve mentioned the FB situation so many times in the past, and for me it’s one of, if not, the biggest factor in our regression. By not having the wide threat we invite pressure by default. We saw it with Trippier as the “replacement” for Walker. Poch’s style requires the first XI to have these types of player to keep our press high up the pitch, but we’re in a situation now where we either:

    don’t have them (Aurier, Davies),
    they’re past it (Rose),
    or they haven’t been integrated fully/ are unknowns (Sess & Foyth).

    Factor in all of the other issues we have and it’s no bloody wonder we are where we are.

    The sad thing is that even if we do address the FB situation in January, we’ll still be months from seeing any impact.
    Providing Sess can be the player we hope he will, we should be fine on the left hand side. But I wouldn’t be adverse to us getting 2 right sided options. Aurier hasn’t worked out, and Foyth is nothing more than a hopeful experiment for me. I’d rather see him used as a CB/DM for the fading Dier, and invest properly in an actual RB, or 2.
     
    #123
  4. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    One thing that I've noticed is our approach to full backs sounds more like how a manager approaches central midfielders: one runs, one sits

    To put it simply, one one flank we have a FB who moves forward at pace with the ball at his feet, while on the other flank we have a FB who doesn't move forward at pace but their job is to move the ball quickly with short passes to the midfielders to bring them into the game, so that means our preferred combinations would be Aurier/Davies or Rose/Foyth in order to make this work

    There's two issues with this: first it can be quite easy for opponent to predict the moment they see the teamsheet so they know how to set up to counter one while pressuring the other, and secondly the issues with Aurier's ceiling being way lower than we thought it would be and Rose regressing mean that while they are making the breaks forward they're not being as rewarding as the system requires - which would be countered if the interplay with Davies/Foyth and midfield opens up space that way, but against busparquet it doesn't
     
    #124
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  5. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    1. Ouch

    2. Has there been serious behind the scenes aggro over the summer that
    real ITKs are aware of (but cannot state) , but the hacks etc have been incorrectly
    writing about ??
     
    #125
  6. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    What is so special about January ??

    1. New signings ?? Who : Dybala ??

    2. A huge turnaround in PL form between now and then
    (current players, new signings who are not fully up to PL speed
    will be and contribute massively) ??

    3. You are ITK that this is the "last responsible moment" that
    Levy has set for pulling the trigger on Pochettino ??
     
    #126
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  7. Tilly'sowner

    Tilly'sowner Well-Known Member

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    I think the clue is there. Poch's attitude and demeanour is likely affecting the squad. To me, that indicates poch is toxic and is having a negative effect on the squad.

    Time to go if that's the case.
     
    #127
  8. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    25 points from our last 24 games is relegation form. Relegation.

    The fact that it’s split from the end of last season to now is actually just as worrying as it would be if we were 24 games into this season. Because it shows that in the off season/ pre-season, nothing has been done from a tactics/ training perspective to change it up.

    Similar as to what RDBD says, the notion that January is suddenly gonna magically turnaround our form and fortune is very wishful thinking. Not least because new signings in January are harder to purchase but the fact that we all know how long it takes a new signing to get into a Poch side means we likely won’t see an immediate impact anyway.

    We need fresh ideas just as much as a couple more signings because if you’re telling we have a squad at present who shouldn’t be getting better results against:
    Newcastle
    Colchester
    Leicester
    Olympiacos
    Watford
    Brighton
    Bayern (from a score perspective, no shame losing but 7-2 is disgusting)
    Everton
    Sheff Utd

    Then I think you’re massively lowering your expectations to save Poch’s face.
     
    #128
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  9. I think we should get in Big Sam and be done with it.
     
    #129
  10. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    As Fergie showed, you can be a tyrannical manager IF you are
    delivering the owner minimal demands ON PITCH. Assuming for Spurs
    said demands are PL top 4, then Pochettino is not currently doing so,
    nor does he look like he can correct the current malaise (whatever the
    reasons for it) .
     
    #130

  11. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    Well, that was garbage, wasn't it?

    How did Dier go from being unable to play at all to starting twice in four days, including traveling for a European away game?
    He was appalling virtually from kick-off, though his early card seemed rather harsh to me. Thought he'd get pulled at half-time.
    Terrible passing, poor marking and sluggish throughout, though somewhat understandable given his bizarre treatment.
     
    #131
  12. Billy The Spur

    Billy The Spur Well-Known Member

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    No offence, but you came on here last season saying Lucas Moura was a Championship level player at best, so forgive me if I take zero notice of this nonsense. <ok>
     
    #132
  13. littleDinosaurLuke

    littleDinosaurLuke Well-Known Member

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    SAF wasn't a tyrant. Quite the opposite. You get the best out of people by being nice to them. Few of his players speak badly of him.
    There is no doubt that players knew what was expected of them. Fall short and you would incur his wrath.
    But in general terms, he got results through persuasion not coercion.
    That never say die attitude his team's were known for came from a sense of unity and everybody wanting to give their best for him and for each other.
    Poch was obviously getting the best from his players for a sustained period up to the start of this year. He seemed to be supportive of the players and they wanted to play for him. This is when a manager can make a real difference.
    Spurs workrate and pressing game, which was key to your most successful recent period, requires a high level of commitment from the players. Poch got it.
    But if OS is right and his attitude/demeanour now stink, then it might explain why he's lost some of the players completely, others are not at their best and the team is consistently below par. Rather than falling out with people, he should get back to being the person the players want to do well for.
     
    #133
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
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  14. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    1. Players not giving it their all cos the manager has pissed them off is not acceptable nor understandable.
    They should give their all (even if they play badly) for the fans.

    In my view I would only say Eriksen has not given his all this season.

    2. Dele missed the start of the season and has taken time to regain his form and fitness after a series of injuries.

    3. Foyth, Davies, Dier, Sessegnon and Lo Celso have only just recovered from their injuries which saw them miss the start of the season, so they are regaining match fitness.

    4. Ndombele has picked up 2 or 3 injuries and Lamela has been out injured as has Lloris.

    In my view, out of these players, we only have really good cover for Lloris.

    We can find things to justifiably criticise such as:

    a. The lack of signings in the summer of 2018 and Jan 2019.

    b. The stadium not being completed on time.

    c. Pochettino saying he would quit if we won the CL.

    d. Letting certain players run down their contracts.

    e. Certain playing selections

    The injury issue has been a problem. Only Ndombele, Lamela and Lloris are now currently injured so hopefully the other 6 will help us string results together.

    Many of of injured are coming back from long term injuries or off the back of several injuries received in a short time which requires careful consideration re playing time etc.

    People have criticised the club for not clearing out unwanted players but it is worth remembering that we accepted bids for Wanyama, Rose and Aurier but all three chose to stay (was claimed that they were all offered pay cuts by the buying clubs...ironic really, as we are supposed to not be willing to pay enough).
    The only criticism I would make about the club was they should have told all 3 that if they failed to find another club then they would not be getting a squad number this season. Rose would definitely have left as he wants to playing in Euro 20.
    Janssen was sold, along with Trippier and Onomah.

    This is Pochettino's first bad run.
    It started in March but we still came 4th and got to the CL final.
    It has continued but I think that we need to ride this out and we will be sll the better for it.

    But unfortunately (in my view) for Pochettino the negative ****e being thrown at the team during the matches plus the loud booing yesterday suggests time could be running out.
     
    #134
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
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  15. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
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    The impatience of fans is a huge factor and makes it very hard for teams to get through bad patches unharmed. I'm sure Levy would not want to get into the Chelsea game of continually throwing money at new wonder managers and repeating the process every year. The bigger stadium does lift Spurs to be able to compete at a higher level it would be ironic if we were denied that chance because of pressure from short sighted fans.
     
    #135
  16. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    1. Only Sugga Daddy FCs and relegation frit clubs do that.

    The former because their owner has bottomless pockets, the latter
    because the financial costs of PL relegation means they cannot
    wait too long for things to turn around.


    2. The problem with this "bad patch" is that it seems to be driven by hubris
    and not by misfortune (injuries etc) .

    The final third pressing game is now non-existent in most PL games.
    There is no DM beast engaging the opposition in MF.

    The financials are now such that Pochettino does not get a free pass like
    he did in 2014-15 while his "philosophy" was engrained into the squad.
    There is a huge financial cost to the club for not being in the CL next season.

    And with quite a few senior players likely to be gone in the summer, you
    don't want a big summer squad restocking to be attempted when you are
    offering EL only.
     
    #136
  17. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
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    I think RCL points out why the bad patch in the post above. Whether hubris is part of it is opinion and impossible to know especially from a man who always speaks in a modest way to the press. Opinions are what create much of the problem in the first place. Your position is odd because we do have some facts. Injuries, no transfers fro two windows, 3 new players ALL being injured and at least 3 players refusing to go when deals have been arranged for them. Or have I misunderstood you and you are referring to the hubris of players and not the manager , if that's the case I wouldn't disagree.
     
    #137
  18. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    The choice seems to be between rolling the dice on a new manager, getting an upturn in form in the short term honeymoon period until the end of the season, with a long term risk looming on the horizon given the inevitability of players ageing/leaving and the unavoidability (not a word don't care) of others players simply not being good enough.

    Or we admit that this season is already lost (let's be honest 12 points is too big a gap to close), bring in more new faces in Jan (as tough a window as it is, we need at least 2 players: CB and RB) and finish the season relaxed, allowing them and the youngsters to bed in before finishing mid table and going all-out in the summer to purchase the final pieces of the puzzle.

    This season has been an inevitable consequence of years of under investment. Should Poch be doing better with the players he has at his disposal? Of course he should. But how much better? 4 points adrift of Chelsea instead of 12? No manager under the sun is going to coax a title challenge out of this group. That is the sad reality. And no manager under the sun is going to eke performances out of Jan, Toby, Eriksen, Rose, Aurier, Wanyama etc. for more than a few months. So for the sake of a slightly better league record and quality of performance in the short term, do we roll that dice? Either way, the rebuild is objectively necessary.

    And so either way, the great unknown in all of this is not whether Poch has a plan to get out of this mess, nor is it the calibre of manager we could bring in to replace him. It is ENIC's view of the next 5 years. We could bring Allegri in tomorrow. If that 5 year plan doesn't include heavy spending, he and the squad will still be stuck in the same merry go round of also-rans. Possibly worse.

    January will reveal all. Perhaps my number one motive to back Poch is the sad likelihood that sacking him will enable ENIC to bring in another AVB-esque yes-man desperate to revive their career who will accept a return to the zero net spend trophy.

    My argument isn't so much better the devil you know as it is better wait for the devil you know to reveal their hand.
     
    #138
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  19. Roo

    Roo Well-Known Member

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    January is another opportunity to continue to make more quality additions like we did this summer, as well as get rid of the ones that want out/whose contracts are coming to an end. Granted, it’s a hard time to do so, but we only have ourselves to blame for this. But we have to twist, and not stick. We need to continue to add new blood to this stale group we’ve had for so long. January isn’t going to magically save us, no, but this season is already a write off. What’s important is that we learn from not making a singing in 18months and get ourselves set up for the next.
    As I’ve said before, Poch has his faults, but I’m not prepared to blame him for this mess, and can’t bring myself to join the “Poch out” brigade. We know what we’re getting with him and granted he infuriates me at times with subs and his stubbornness, but if he’d actually backed and supported properly over the last 5 years (including outgoings as well as incomings) I believe we’d be in a different situation to where we are now.
     
    #139
  20. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    No one offered £25m to buy Toby...if we had sold him for the £18m offered there'd have been outrage on here.

    Rose, Wanyama and Aurier all refused to go...like I said before, the club should tell them that they will no longer play for us and if that happens they'll go in the January window...along with toby who should be told the same.

    I suspect Toby, Rose and Aurier will go if that happens.
     
    #140
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