Off Topic Politics Thread

Fair point so here is today’s news. It is also true that Tories have left for similar reasons. My point is that Corby/McDonnel assisted by the Momentum group seem to be averse to anything that resists their brand of socialism.

‘Speaking to the Express and Star newspaper, Mr Austin also announced he would be standing down as MP for Dudley North - a seat he held at the 2017 election with a majority of just 22.
He said: "I am so sorry that it has come to this, but as has always been the case, I have to do what I think is right."
He added: "I must do everything I can to stop Jeremy Corbyn from getting into power."
Mr Austin became a Labour councillor in Dudley in his twenties, later working as a press officer for Gordon Brown.
He was elected MP for Dudley North in 2005 and served in Mr Brown's government from 2008 to 2010.
Mr Austin quit the party earlier this year, blaming Mr Corbyn for "creating a culture of extremism and intolerance" and accused the Labour leadership of failing to tackle anti-Semitism in the party’

So if one of their own feel like this then I draw conclusions along with other similar opinions, evidence enough for me. By the way I am a member of my party so that in whatever way I can I’m trying to promote an economy that has highly successful businesses that in turn produce a tax return to provide income for the use of those who are in need, have little chance of providing their own income and a health service worthy of the name. It’s my way of politics and I’m afraid I cannot find any enthusiasm for a party that seems to promote the idea that if you’re ‘rich’ we’re after you’.

I’ve replied as a matter of common courtesy to your post.

 

The photo shop is almost as good as the one “showing” Corbyn at an IRA funeral, where he is sporting a T-shirt, with the slogan “I heart the IRA”, a pair of shorts, whilst carrying a newspaper in his left hand.
Typical funeral attire.

 

I must admit to not liking Corbyn either. But if it comes to a choice between him and Pfeffel it's not one that I am going to spend much time considering. The attack by Austin comes over as intensely personal. He needs to consider if backing someone likely to inflict as much damage on this country as Adolph is wise.

 

The overwhelming evidence is that while antisemitism does exist in the Labour Party the leadership are making intense efforts to eradicate it. The article posted by @St Badger earlier is one of many I have seen offering convincing evidence that Corbyn himself is not antisemitic in the slightest. Oh, and there is of course the fact that Ian Austin does hold an unpaid post with the government, as a trade advisor to Israel, so he is most probably not only anti-Corbyn, but pro-Zionist.

The distinction between antisemitism and anti-Zionism might be lost on many people, but it is key to understanding the issue here.

 

For your last point i do actually agree, and I've you've read my posts on here I've provided plenty of pro business arguments, especially with how much being in the EU benefits business. I feel that the attacks on the rich are also sometimes a form of tribalism, where blame is placed on the faceless rich. I take it on a case by case bases.

I do feel that Tories take it too far in cutting social services which then ends up costing the money it saved in the short term to build the services back up later. Which is what you are seeing in this election with Both parties completely undoing all the effects of austerity by borrowing money again.

Additionally, IMO the Tory policies tend to be elitist.
For example Universal Credit, which is meant to make managing money slightly easier both for recipients and the government reducing administration costs. But rather than the government taking it on themselves to ensure the money goes to the right place, they pass it on to the recipient to manage the money which is fine for those who are good at that, but causes those who are not great, perhaps the elderly or disabled, to struggle to the point that arrears among my social housing residents who took part in the trial quadrupled. They pressed ahead with rolling it out anyway and took a long time before giving the option for housing associations like mine to directly take the money, once the resident was already in arrears... They also had long wait times to asses the claim, meaning those who didn't have money saved up got into trouble, and we had to introduce a policy insisting residents were paid up a month in advance which again, hurt those on tight incomes most. They have improved that a but now but its still not great. Additionally they cut the amount of rent by a few % for our tenants. sounds good until you think about how for the worst off this is paid for by the government through benefits, so they gain little. and those funds were used by us to provide services to all our residents. we had to cut our energy advice service where we went out to residents to asses their energy and heating usage to help them save money. So again this policy slightly helped those who were doing okay while hurting the worst off. Right to buy does the same. it allows those who have saved up enough money to own a house. good for them. But at the same time reduces social housing for the worst off, and keeps people on the street.

I could go on about similar trends in education and other areas.

For me the elitist 'if it were me, i would have escaped the burning building' Mogg brand of elitism is prevalent througout Tory policies, which is why i would have a very difficult time voting for them even if we didn't have Brexit and Boris to content with.

 

This

Being anti-zionist and criticising the illegal actions of Israel isn't anti-semitic. Although that's exactly what Israel and it's supporters have tried to do to muddy the waters and shut down any debate.

Also, a Home affairs cross party select committee found that there was no more anti-semitism in the Labour party than in any other mainstream political party. There is however a big problem with Islamophobia in the Conservative Party, which was echoed by Boris with his 'Letterbox' comments.

We all know why the right wing go after Corbyn. It's because he represents a threat to the their systems that allow them to maintain wealth and power. They are desperate for him not to get into no 10, so the smear campaigns keep on coming.

 

Would someone care to define “extremism” please.
I keep reading and hearing it used in relation to Labour policies but I cannot see anything extreme in wanting
More social housing.
More affordable housing.
Better social care.
A better and fairer welfare system.
A better funded education system.
Better funding for the NHS, including the reinstatement of the nurses bursary.
Stronger unions and better workers rights, including the abolition of zero hours contracts.
Rent capping and more secure tenancies, with the “no fault eviction” threat being removed.
Renationalising of key industries that would pour billions into the public purse, over the years.

Is it extreme because they want wealthy businesses to stop hiding their money offshore and pay their dues, without using countless loopholes to avoid paying money into the public purse, to support the public services that they and their employees use.
I just want to know if I am an extremist for supporting them.

 

And coming, some bigger than others some snipes and innuendo all driven by a coordinated campaign.

 

Labour's policies aren't even really that left wing. They are just liberal socially democratic policies. In any Scandanavian country, these policies would simply be seen as centrist politics.

 

Not to mention the billions to be invested in the Green Industrial Revolution, which will not only kickstart manufacturing industry but tackle climate change head on.

None of those policies are extremist in the least, but sensible, well-thought-through ideas to address poverty, deprivation, years of decline, and the urgency of the environmental crisis. The problem is the fact that they are polar opposites of the tax-cutting, asset-stripping opportunism of the Tories, which is why they are attacked and derided by the right-wing media.

 

How many of you lads on here live in marginal constituencies and will be voting tactically ?

I want to see a Labour Govt. But where I live it's a two horse race between the Tories and Lib Dems, who are only 312 votes behind the current Tory MP.

 

Yes, the Lib Dem is the chance to unseat the Tory in my constituency too, so it’s a no-brainer for me.

 

My ward is marginal.
Labour lost by 31 votes last time, so no need for me to vote tactically but hopefully the Lib Dem supporters will, as they polled around 20000 fewer votes than Labour and the Tories.

 

Me and a load of other Southampton fans will be in this ward. I would have probably voted Lib Dems if i didnt have to vote tactically but will be voting labour.

 

It's essential that everyone places their vote where it can do most damage to the Tory. There are some seats though where the Lib Dems came third in 2017 but this time represent a better possibility as their vote is more than double the 2017. These three way marginals are the trickiest to predict so it's a matter of just taking a punt.

 

A true Conservative would have the UK Conservative party that is like its supposed sister Conservative parties, like Germany´s Christian Democrats. It would disown Brexit, it would disown populism, it would seek to break down borders, not put them up and it would seek alliances across the political divide. As such the UK Conservatives are Conservative only in name.

 

A poll in Gedling (E Mids) puts Labour on 42% Tories on 37%. This is a pro Leave area and Gedling is 43rd on the Tory target list. This suggests that the Tories might win possibly 20 Labour seats, probably fewer than they will lose to the SNP and Lib Dems.

 

If you are poor (or should that simply be not rich?), voting for the Conservatives is like finding a burglar in your house and helping him carry your tv to their car, then showing him where the safe is, before giving him a big tip on the way out.

 

Never forget that a Tory thinks that the poor have far too much money and that the rich do not have enough.

 

You know the worst thing in this election is the prospect is that the Tories will win a majority by virtue of electoral jiggery pokery. It seems that this is where we might be heading. The only realistic way of stopping this is for a Lib Dem/ Labour deal and that's not going to happen. I am willing to support Labour, LD, Independent, SNP, Plaid Cymru, Green in an attempt to prevent Pfeffel returning to No.10.

My suspicion is that those in Momentum won't be entirely sorry if he gets back. I have been in my youth a member of a left wing splinter group and their preferred MO isn't by the ballot box. My argument against this is not so much the un democratic nature of it as the fact that it just doesn't work.