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Off Topic Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by ChilcoSaint, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. Farked19

    Farked19 Well-Known Member

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    Making up lies about the EU goes back far further than that. The Scum was doing it n the 80's with square bananas . Same time they said Red Ken had banned Baa Baa Blacksheep as racialist.
     
    #21621
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  2. shoot_spiderman

    shoot_spiderman Power to the People

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    Also ...
    Manhole covers
    Black bags
    Straight cucumbers
     
    #21622
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  3. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace
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    I certainly believe very strongly that the EU ticks the security and crime box. The EU has been an incredible force for peace since its inception: this in fact was the reason Churchill suggested something like the EU was formed in the first place. Both the Balkan conflict and the Irish Troubles were ended under the auspices of the EU, and any remaining tensions in those regions have been ameliorated by the trade and cooperation which the EU has enabled. As has been discussed many times on here, any attempt to reintroduce customs checks at the Irish border is almost certain to lead to the resurrection of violence.

    The European Arrest Warrant and Europol have also been major factors in tackling organised crime, people trafficking, and paedophile rings, to name but a few, and the UK will be worse off without them.

    As for benefitting some regions over others, well that’s kind of the whole point of the EU right there. Scotland, Cornwall, and many towns and cities around the UK have received EU funding to tackle poverty, unemployment, and rural deprivation in those areas. Some people argue that it’s our own money coming back, but that only stands up if you believe the lie that we put more into the EU than we get back, and in any case, why didn’t our own government help those areas when they needed help?
     
    #21623
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  4. King Grimlock

    King Grimlock Well-Known Member

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    The best deal with Europe is the one we have now. True when this was first said, True now.
     
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  5. Schad

    Schad Well-Known Member

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    Again, I do not disagree with any of that in the main. The problem is that, rather than forcefully arguing that the EU does fulfill those categories, the framework instead asks open-ended questions which are filled in by the preexisting biases of the individual, and if you put a referendum up asking people to withdraw from the EU if it failed at least one of those criteria in their minds, that referendum would pass handily.
     
    #21625
  6. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace
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    But you're missing the point. Labour wouldn't recommend a deal that failed any of their 6 tests. If they couldn't get a deal which passed all 6, they would recommend remaining.
     
    #21626
  7. shoot_spiderman

    shoot_spiderman Power to the People

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    Just to say why I think these are a perfectly good first negotiating stance for Corbyn to take in his own eyes

    1. EU Relationship. He wants to escape some EU controls not a cooperative relationship

    2. Customs Union. As above

    3. Migration. Isn’t this what most people want. Not sure what our current policy is as government don’t even use controls available in EU

    4. Workers Rights. At huge risk when we leave

    5. Cross border crime. At risk when we leave

    6. Regions. Shouldn’t make things worse although they are already bad enough but not because of EU because of UK

    As regards this list for Remain the issue is obviously that 3 and 6 aren’t currently true whoever you choose to blame
     
    #21627
  8. Schad

    Schad Well-Known Member

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    No such deal exists or can exist. Any deal that seems like it wholly satisfies all six conditions without fail does so only because the observer desperately wants to believe that it does.
     
    #21628
  9. shoot_spiderman

    shoot_spiderman Power to the People

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    Not sure I can read or type fast enough here but

    ISIRTP is saying they can’t be achieved so it’s a hidden manifesto to Remain under a banner to Leave
     
    #21629
  10. Beddy

    Beddy Plays the percentage

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    Surely though Chilcs that's got to work both ways?
     
    #21630
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  11. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

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    If anyone thinks that voting for Johnson is the answer then they haven't understood the question.
     
    #21631
  12. Beddy

    Beddy Plays the percentage

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    Am I misunderstanding something.................The customs union aside are not things like cooperation military wise and policing and a few other things worrying the remainers up during further negotiation once Brexit is agreed. Reference to Churchill and forming an alliance in the EU was because two world wars had been started there but it was meant to include the Russians who declined to be part of it. (That was my understanding)
     
    #21632
  13. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    The perception of the EU as portrayed in the Barclay brothers, Rothermere and Murdoch rags is an example of propaganda that twists reality. Spaffer Johnson a leading exponent.
     
    #21633
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  14. VocalMinority

    VocalMinority Well-Known Member

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    The EU have handled this Brexit situation more efficiently, more democratically and overall far better than our government has.
     
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  15. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    My Auntie lives there. I think that gets me in.
     
    #21635
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  16. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    I have friends working for Europol and Dutch security who are dismayed and disbelieving when considering the effects, in both directions, that any form of brexit will have. No deal regarded as a disaster.

    NB The UK will be excluded from the Galileo satellite and the security systems therein. instead will be building its own Global Navigation Satellite System.
     
    #21636
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  17. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying we shouldn’t believe the pages and pages, or statement after statement, that have been made about how better things will be post Brexit?
     
    #21637
  18. Beddy

    Beddy Plays the percentage

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    I'm not saying any such thing.................Surely it depends on your leaning as to what you believe is all I'm saying.
     
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  19. AberdeenSaint

    AberdeenSaint Well-Known Member

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    You`ll be welcome Farked ! And I hope you`re right.
     
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  20. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Chill. I put it in blue.

    It was a pi55 take. There hasn’t been any such statements.
     
    #21640
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