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The 2019-2020 season.

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by Walsh.i.am, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    Passing percentages are a very misleading and to a certain extent meaningless stat. How many of those 87% successful passes turn defence into attack. I suspect more than likely nearly all those passes were passing around the back like a defender, hence Godfrey & Hanley having more. Players who play the easy pass rather than an effective penetrating pass are always going to have better %'s
     
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  2. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    I think we'll have to agree to disagree, Canario. Tettey's PS ratio used to be in the low 70s when playing in the same position under previous managers. He is particularly well matched with Leitner and they've developed a good understanding that was sorely missing against Villa. It's enough for me that he has featured in our best results, but has only played 13 minutes in our worst results, at Burnley.
     
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  3. Canary Spring

    Canary Spring Well-Known Member

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    Tetty's performances this season in the two games he's started have been high calibre. Whether he would be starting if not for all the injuries is academic. He has come in and done the job in both midfield and CB. I hope he has another season in him after this one. <ok>
     
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  4. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    Where is the evidence that Tettey playing holds us back going forward? On the contrary, IMO the extra security he provides by doing effectively what a DM is there to do, allows other players, e.g. the full backs and whoever partners him in midfield (Leitner, McLean), greater freedom moving forward.
     
    #1044
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  5. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    Evidence ? Go watch him play. I don't doubt he has a role to play this season with all our injuries, but the original comment was he was vital to our success this season. Of the options we have available you can make a strong case for him being in the starting 11, in my view that wouldn't be the case if all our players were available. There is a reason why he wasn't playing regularly in the starting 11 last year. I often hear he should get in the team because he has experience. In my view you should get in the team because you're the best option, if you've got experience that's a bonus. As for him getting another 1 year extension I can't see it. Stay up and I think we'll buy Amadou and limited squad numbers make retaining Tettey unlikely. Go down and as last season showed he'll hardly be key to us coming up. I wasn't that keen on him getting an extension last time, but our injury crisis makes me think that maybe it wasn't such a bad move, but we need to be realistic with what he brings to the team and perhaps more importantly what he takes away when he plays.
     
    #1045
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  6. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

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    Great summary canario and 100% agree!! <ok>
     
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  7. Hairy Mary Quite Canary

    Hairy Mary Quite Canary Well-Known Member

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    please log in to view this image
     
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  8. General Melchett

    General Melchett Well-Known Member

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    I totally disagree, throughout Farke's time he has continually disguarded Tettey, we have often shown a soft underbelly. I made the argument in his first season that Tettey was the most critical player as we went from soft and easy to score against and beat to durable and tough to beat. Results that season with vs without Tettey made it clear he was critical.
    We all understand why Farke wants someone in DM that has more incisive passing to further enable the system but, to win you need some solidity.
    In his second season Tettey's return to the team also improved results, but not just because he was that reliable barrier, as Rob says above he had genuinely upped his passing game under Farke. I still think he brings much to the party. Is Trybull a better player? For me it's a yes and no. Tettey clearly makes us more solid that TT. TT is better when we have the ball. Amadou might be better than both, we must wait and see.
    But for me, I would even with a fully fit squad strongly consider Tettey as a starter for away games and those against the top two. He gives us something defensively that no one else is proven to.

    Bah!
     
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  9. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Tettey's defensive strengths allow Leitner to express himself. This tends to be less so with Trybull, who Is more of a CM/DM. That can be an advantage in home games like Newcastle, but a disadvantage in away games or home games against top half teams (like ManCity when Tettey played the whole 90 minutes). With the absence of either you get a result like Villa, which is why DM is such a key position in the PL. As said before, hopefully Amadou, who is definitely here for the whole season, will be the long term solution at DM, but for now Tettey is vital for our chances of survival.
     
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  10. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    When has this happened ? The ONLY game this season that I can recall Tettey & Leitner playing together for any length of time is last Saturday's game against Bournemouth. Yes our first clean sheet of the season against a pretty poor Bournemouth performance, but also a game when we weren't very effective going forward which kind of supports my view that he adds defensively, but significantly reduces our effectiveness going forward. If we the Bournemouth game is indicative of our performance going forward, I suspect we'll be playing championship football next season.
     
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  11. General Melchett

    General Melchett Well-Known Member

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    An alternative view is that Tettey was instrumental in a system able to make Bournemouth struggle and look poor. Add to that, we have had a series of games since Citeh without Tettey that have not yielded goals either. I won't argue that Tettey is some great creative force, but he doesn't harm our attack so much. As RER says his inclusion can allow others more freedom, of course as players are returning we are chopping and changing the lineup and that brings challenges of it's own when creating. You could just as easily blame the omission of Steiperman as the inclusion of Tettey for drawing a blank.

    Bah!
     
    #1051
  12. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    You're missing the point RER said 'Tettey's defensive strengths allow Leitner to express himself .' if it does then when has this happened.

    Yes you may be right that Tettey may have been instrumental in making Bournemouth look poor, but I've never argued that he doesn't help out defensively. My concern is more that he restricts our ability to attack. For me when all our players are fit we have stronger options that better maintain the balance between attack & defence.

    Anyway I think this discussion has run it's course, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
     
    #1052
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
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  13. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    This, I'm afraid, I have to disagree with! I would say that our implementation of Farkeball has consistently failed to deliver the needed balance between attack and defence. Look at our goals conceded last season, never mind this (injury affected) one, Getting away with a porous defence by dint of outscoring the opposition is not a form of balance (as quickly becomes obvious when confronting better teams week in week out in the top division).
     
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  14. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    As Tettey has only had two starts this season (ManCity & Bournemouth) my reference to his combining with Leitner at Bournemouth reflected their play together last season. Tettey had to wait through the first 6 games during which we struggled last season, but when he and Leitner were paired our season turned around. Against ManCity, it was Tettey's run in behind the defense which earned the corner that produced the first goal. He is not an attacking player, but he does enable more attacking players the freedom to go forward while he sits deeper to break up counter attacks. This provides the balance Robbie advocates and I agree with him. The lack of it was very apparent at West Ham, Burnley, Palace and against Villa. I've predicted a draw with ManUtd, but if Tettey doesn't play, I'll change that to a two goal loss. That's the difference he makes.
     
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  15. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
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    At which point, enter the EDP with their input on the topic.

    https://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwi...-looking-ahead-to-manchester-united-1-6338245


    cam@_cxmdoran_
    WHAT a difference it makes having this man in the team.
    His technical ability may not be great but his presence, defensive influence and leadership has such a positive impact on this #NCFC side!
     
    #1055
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  16. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

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    I think that's spot on Cromer and we really need someone like him in the team, even if only to limit the number of goal attempts by the opposition (Villa had 22 I think). Yes, he may well hamper our attacking options/flair, but if we're not conceding goals, then we can sneak a 1-0 victory occasionally. <ok>
     
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  17. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
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    Both full backs love to get forward at every opportunity - and are encouraged to do so.
    Tettey stays back and helps cover the gaps they leave behind.
    In theory ;)
     
    #1057
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  18. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I don't understand why people expect a DM to bolster our attacking options. That's why the position has defensive in the title, so the player can encourage the attacking play of others. We have plenty of attacking players but if too many commit to the attack, we get picked off time a and time again. It's about balance between defence and attack. Tettey gives us that, tucking in with the CBs to fend off opposing breaks. That's his role. He enhances the attacking options of other players by providing cover behind them.
     
    #1058
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  19. oldcanariesfan

    oldcanariesfan Well-Known Member

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    Poor old Alex. What has he ever done wrong for this team, to whom he is committed, and to whom he gives his all when he plays.

    He makes a significant difference to the team whenever he plays - two starts this season, no defeats. He may not spray the ball around a la Ian Crook but that isn't what he is in the team for - what he does give the team is stability, a spine and defensive organisation that is sadly lacking whenever he doesn't play (witness the shambles that was Villa).

    Yes, Amadou if he stays, may be the long term replacement for Alex and will offer perhaps something slightly different going forward, but in the meantime, with three CB's sidelined and Amadou the CB fall-back guy, we are left with Alex Tettey to do what he does best and I for one am pleased with that.
     
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  20. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    Our striker should be our first defender, Pukki does this.

    Our GK should be our first attacker.

    All players in between should be able to bring something to both defence & attack, particularly at PL level.

    DM's are not just there to defend, a key part of their game should be initiating attacks / counter attacks through quick and accurate distribution to penetrate the opposition.
     
    #1060

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