1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by ChilcoSaint, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. Farked19

    Farked19 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2019
    Messages:
    5,386
    Likes Received:
    3,952
    Let's see shall we? If RLB gets it then I will rest my case.
     
    #21161
  2. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    7,919
    So this government needed 5 weeks to write a few hundred words for Queenie to read out in Parliament but expects the reading, analysis, debate and amendment of a 500 page document that has the destructive potential to wreck our economy, impoverish our nation and ruin the lives of tens of millions of people.
     
    #21162
  3. Beddy

    Beddy Plays the percentage

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    9,567
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    So you think the government should just do what you think is right for the country eh?? Just so it has to extend the deadline. For what reason? To just continue arguing and hoping people will change their minds? All the opposition parties have been given a chance to amend the situation by having a GE but know that the chances of them winning is doubtful.......... You think that is good for the country????? Most of what has been agreed they already had discussed time and time again in the May's deal. The only real difference was about the Irish boarder. No mate the opposition are just posturing because they can. Also since when has the speaker had the power to decide what can and cant be debated in parliament ????????????
     
    #21163
  4. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    7,919
    Erskine May defines parliamentary procedure and Bercow has to follow it. By your logic it is OK for Johnson to trample all over parliamentary procedure having said he believed in the Sovereignty of Parliament but the man charged with ensuring we comply with procedure should bend it or even ignore it to suit Johnson's corrupt needs. I don't quite follow that logic.

    From where I stand what is happening is fundamental to the future prosperity and safety of this country and should not be rushed.

    As someone famously once said "I believe this country as on a cliff edge and Boris is just the man to take us forward."
     
    #21164
  5. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2019
    Messages:
    8,239
    Likes Received:
    9,907
    "extend the deadline. For what reason?"

    A bill that needs scrutinising thoroughly. Amendments made to prevent a backdoor no deal exit and attach a new referendum. Let alone correcting the deficiencies highlighted so well in Keir Stammer's excellent speech. Of course there needs to be an extension. This is setting out (should it get passed) the way negotiations over the transition period and beyond, how easy do you thinks it's going to be? Certainly not as the 2016/17 Johnson statements.
    https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author lies and deceit throughout.

    "Since when has the speaker had the power to decide what can and cant be debated in parliament ???????????" That's part of his purpose, stoping attempts by John and his incompetent cronies to rush legislation through.

    "John Bercow, ruled that it would be “repetitive and disorderly”.

    Bercow said it would break longstanding conventions for MPs to debate and vote on the agreement struck in Brussels last week, little more than two days after Saturday’s historic sitting.

    “Today’s motion is in substance the same as Saturday’s motion, and the house has decided the matter. Today’s circumstances are in substance the same as Saturday’s circumstances,” Bercow said in the Commons on Monday.

    He added: “The motion will not be debated today, as it would be repetitive and disorderly to do so.”
     
    #21165
    milton archer and ChilcoSaint like this.
  6. Beddy

    Beddy Plays the percentage

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    9,567
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    There is nothing corrupt if things are put before parliament..........It has taken nearly 3 years to get where we are today..........and where are we nowhere!! How are we to proceed if the speaker denies the chance to discuss it in parliament. Oh and just as a reminder 95% of the current agreement they had already discussed. I'm not saying we should endorse the deal or not endorse the deal just that they should be treating things with a bit of urgency.........
     
    #21166
  7. VocalMinority

    VocalMinority Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    4,109
    Likes Received:
    3,745
    No they should be doing things thoroughly. This is important legislation. Why does it have to be urgent?

    With how rushed this was put together there may well be oversights and mistakes.
     
    #21167
    fatletiss likes this.
  8. thereisonlyoneno7

    thereisonlyoneno7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    18,162
    Likes Received:
    26,951
    Beddy, i think St Jabbo has answered the other questions, but I will answer this one.

    All the opposition parties WANT a GE, they just don't want to crash out of the EU with no deal. Once we have that extension, we will get our election. They are posturing so we don't set the economy back 50 years.
     
    #21168
  9. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    7,919
    On the radio yesterday a business man in the wholesale fruit and veg industry said we should jus get on with Brexit and if we have a hard Brexit we will just have to grow all of our own food. Do people really think about what they say? In 1940 we had a population of just under 50 million and despite all our efforts with dig for victory and the conscription of women and prisoners to work the land we half starved with food carefully rationed and we still had imports from the USA. Today we have less farmland as we have built houses over a lot of it and a population of over 70 million. I would like to know how he thinks that will work. dig.jpg
     
    #21169
    San Tejón and ChilcoSaint like this.
  10. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    37,240
    Likes Received:
    35,091
    And May’s deal had been voted down 3 times, and the Irish border question strikes into the heart of an international treaty which we are party to, the Good Friday Agreement. This is a significantly different deal in many ways, so of course it has to be scrutinised, and hopefully amended to include a confirmatory referendum. This is the biggest issue this country has faced since the Second World War, so why wouldn’t you want Parliament to debate it?

    Oh, and the Speaker has only had the right to decide on what is debated in the Commons since 1624, so I’m not surprised you haven’t noticed before!
     
    #21170
    thereisonlyoneno7 likes this.

  11. Beddy

    Beddy Plays the percentage

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    9,567
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    But an extension is just going to leave us where we are............Remember all that was asked for was a debate not a decision.......It might be repetitive........often things are but it will still have to be debated. Bercow is protecting the remain party so they can get their extension.
     
    #21171
  12. VocalMinority

    VocalMinority Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    4,109
    Likes Received:
    3,745
    The person who put this amendment forward has declared he will vote in favour of the deal. Dont be fooled by Johnson's propaganda that this is a remainer plot. Its just wanting to scrutinise the legislation before voting through the deal.
     
    #21172
  13. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2019
    Messages:
    8,239
    Likes Received:
    9,907
    Look at Keir Stammer's excellent speech, all of it, the are substantial changes that could have far reaching effect notably divergence. The point of delaying is for further discussion and amendments. What's the problem with that? It's obviously needed.
     
    #21173
    VocalMinority likes this.
  14. Beddy

    Beddy Plays the percentage

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    9,567
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Yes I did know.........but it is very rare they stop a debate as important as this........he is supposed to be neutral........and not allow things that support either sides ideology. This smacks of side taking with this and other things that has gone on.......
     
    #21174
  15. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2019
    Messages:
    8,239
    Likes Received:
    9,907
    That's paranoia induced by Barclay brothers Rothermere and Murdoch propaganda.
     
    #21175
    davecg69 and Archers Road like this.
  16. VocalMinority

    VocalMinority Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    4,109
    Likes Received:
    3,745
    He's not stopped the debate though he and more importantly parliament has just ruled we debate the legislation first...
     
    #21176
    milton archer and StJabbo1 like this.
  17. Beddy

    Beddy Plays the percentage

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    9,567
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    I don't have a problem with that at all.........but how are they to discuss it if the speaker says no??
     
    #21177
  18. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2019
    Messages:
    8,239
    Likes Received:
    9,907
    He stopped a vote the discussion goes on.
     
    #21178
  19. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    37,240
    Likes Received:
    35,091
    Even if this deal goes through, it may not be possible to get all the necessary legislation through by the 31st. That was the purpose of the Letwin amendment on Saturday, as failure to get all the Bills passed would result in us leaving with No Deal. Many of the Tory right wing and the Brexit Party want that anyway, but anyone with any sense can see it would be catastrophic for this country.

    Rushing bills through when there is no need to is dangerously irresponsible. The Benn Act was rushed through, but there was an urgent need for that. An extension gives time to get the deal through with full scrutiny and hold the referendum.
     
    #21179
    VocalMinority and StJabbo1 like this.
  20. VocalMinority

    VocalMinority Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    4,109
    Likes Received:
    3,745
    I think you're confused. We are still discussing brexit. In particular the legislation to implement it. Just not voting on it until that is done.
     
    #21180

Share This Page