Off Topic Politics Thread

Nissan I believe will leave the UK with or without a deal ....only a matter of time IMO.

 

Yep. That’s my point

 

Good point, well made. I have been a hard left Marxist all my life - in my heart. I have to recognise that a huge majority would think I was totally bonkers if I revealed that. So all my life in a political arena I have been a pragmatist. You win what you can win and move towards your ulitmate goal. It's why I like John McDonnell. He'd drive tanks down The Mall if he followed his heart, but he understands the battles that can be won and those that are pie in the sky. For me this separates him from the total fruitcases in Momentum. The left can learn a lot from Thatcher. She was clever. It was all about gradual erosion and shifting the consensus. The revolution is really an evolution - if that's not too Lennon-like rather than Lenin-like!

 

Really? Been keeping that quiet, mate.

 

I had to like this to show approval. I really needed a "Agree, and it's ****ing depressing" button.

 

Some interesting comments in this about the possibility of the house using the Queen’s speech to force a Referendum, if I understood it.
Can’t help but think it would be favourable for Labour to get this out of the way, before an election, simply to reduce the threat of their voters switching to the one policy Lib Dems. Also it would clear the way for an election to be fought on manifestos alone, plus the Tories record on austerity.


https://infacts.org/mps-could-amend-queens-speech-to-call-for-a-referendum/

 

Theo Paphitis made well reasoned comments during Question Time last night along the lines that he voted leave, but now 3.5 years later and now better informed, that he would welcome, and see it as right and democratic that given the shambles we are in, and that we haven`t left yet, that another referendum is the democratic way forward. A woman in the audience argued that she new exactly what she was letting herself in for, but then stated several times that she hadn`t a clue what would happen if we leave, deal or no deal. We need to be saved from these morons.

 

I happened to see that bit of QT before I turned off in frustration. I’ve said this before, but with even the government’s own evidence so stacked up against no deal, I don’t actually think anyone actually arguing for it deserves to be listened to anymore. Give us a second referendum, which all the polls now say will be won by Remain comfortably, and end this whole sorry episode for good. Then we can get on with healing the country from the wounds inflicted by nearly 10 years of Tory austerity.

 

Imps had the same problem understanding this part. i was actually going to mention this deal in my post but i thought it would confuse people so left it out.

Firstly there are multiple reasons for everything and they stack up. so saying THE issue is always going to be incorrect in this. As you say the lack of Tariffs to the EU from that deal takes one reason away. Things like efficiency from concentrating industry and employing locals will influence their leaders in Japan. there's also the need to contract anyway due to the whole diesel engine thing.

But on the side of stay here they also had access to infrastructure they had already built and paid for, trained, experienced staff, access to both local resources such as our steel and iron as well as EU resources tariff free. (japan is a resource poor country and has no free trade agreement with china or Korea) as well as other parts for their cars they might not make themselves like wires, radios etc. but is built by us or the EU again free from tariffs charges with the infrastructure already in place. Also i expect Nissan is also not wanting to lay off thousands of Nissan workers just to replace them with Japanese. i doubt they are that jingoistic.

There will be a load more on each side. point is don't take a single reason and say that is THE reason and think nothing else has had an effect so it isn't because of that. That's why i specifically said push over the edge.

Secondly while it allows goods manufactured in Japan toe sold more cheaply to EU countries from Japan. The reverse is also true allowing European manufacture to produce and export more cheaply to Japan. so while you might see a contraction of Japanese companies in the EU it will expand companies and create jobs for companies that do services for japan. and as this all due to making it easier for companies to export rather than more difficult like in a trade war, it creates a net positive in jobs for countries in the EU and Japan.

However having left the EU, we only get the negatives of this trade agreement like company contraction and higher costs to bring in goods like Japanese cars. and any company expanding in order to export to a market in japan will do so within the EU and not here.

 

No I would never have guessed,,,,,,,,,,,,........You are right though...Nissan are trying to get government funding by the back door..........

 

Comedian David Schneider sums the whole idiotic business up:

 

Sorry i forgot to add the most important part. What Nissan are saying is that, Their business in the UK is still sustainable despite the Japanese trade deal, but not with the Japanese trade deal AND Brexit tariffs.

 

Wouldnt need to blame brexit for that, could have done it with the trade deal. Or as part of the trade deal. (may well have done, i don't know)

 

A tad harsh, but I get your point. I thought the most telling thing about that exchange was that she was saying, quite rightly, that we don't know what's going to happen but went on to say that it's OK.

The business man was basically arguing that he conducts a risk assessment on any new business development. Sadly this apparently logical point was lost on the woman who simply waved her hands and smiled at him as if he were a child to be patronised for holding such a view.

I find this everywhere. My sister-in-law* is a Daily Mail reading brexiteer. When I recently pointed out that our part of the North West is vulnerable with both Vauxhall and Aerospace looking to possibly pull the plug I got a "It won't happen though, will it?" reply.

Gove's comments about experts has certainly had an impact.

*If anyone knows a way of divorcing an in-law without divorcing one's spouse could they please let me know!

 

I have the same situation with my brother and his wife, both mid 70's. They now nothing about politics but are hardline Leavers. She recently threw a wobbly when I remarked that "Brexit was going well". We have had good relations since their marriage in 1965 but Brexit has soured all that. It's a couple of miles detour to their house off the road I use every day. I'm thinking it's too far to bother.

 

Yes and how sad is that? I was always able to tolerate my sister-in-law's Tory voting, but Brexit is such a toxic issue. What we needed in 2016 was David Cameron's mum to shake her head and say "Now stop it, David. It'll all end in tears!"

I love the idea that we'll all hug and make up once we leave deal-or-no-deal.

 

That`s a shame Farked - these kind of divides have sprung up all over the country however between families, friends, acquaintances and colleagues. What a legacy !

 

Millions of men are pressing F5 right now

 

I’m in a similar position, with my eldest sister and her husband. Both get their political views from the Express and swallow everything they print hook, line and sinker and voted Leave.
The difficulty for me, should we actually leave the EU, is that my plan for the future was always to retire to Spain, but that is getting increasingly unlikely, especially if there is any substance in the latest news about intensive negotiations that might obtain a deal, that is acceptable to the EU.
Fingers crossed that should a deal be agreed, Parliament vetoes it, and gives Buffoon someone to blame.
Pension wise, I have never been that savvy, so I won’t be retiring with massive additional funds, over and above the state pension, but it would be enough to be able to live, reasonably comfortably in a paid for house in Spain.
Here, I would have to rent and probably continue working ad infinitum.
We have put off trying to sell our house in Spain, in the hope that common sense would prevail, but the time may now be upon us to do so.
Anyone know how I can change my nationality?

 

You don't normally find a straight political article in a clean technology website, but here goes:

There’s One Group Of People Not At All Surprised By Donald Trump Letting Turkey Massacre US Allies.

[Quick clarifier - the US Allies being the Kurds in northern Syria who did most of the fighting to knock back ISIS, and then being shat on by Trump when he gave Turkey the OK to invade Syria to hit on the Kurds whilst the US look the other way.]

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/1...nald-trump-letting-turkey-massacre-us-allies/