Match Day Thread Bolton Wanderers v Sunderland - Saturday 21st September KO 15:00

I was at the match today and Bolton did play quite well, but we were awful. Whoever came up with those possession stats can't have been there. We couldn't win the ball, when we did manage to pick up a stray pass we couldn't keep it, our passing was awful and Bolton were all over us like a rash. Grigg needs dropping to the 23s for a while to see if he can regain confidence, and why everyone thinks that our keeper is so great, I can't understand, he is a decent shot stopper but his distribution is carp.

 

No one was complaining when we were winning and Maja was scoring goals. JR hasn't started being more conservative because he wants to. No one seems to think about cause and effect.

 

When you haven't got a striker to put the ball in the net there's only so much you can do, the only thing that will help Grigg is scoring and no manager can do it for him. No amount of pep talks, clever management or strategy will make a striker bereft of confidence start scoring. Grigg and Wyke get chances they should take every game and they don't, if they took more of them we'd probably be in the top two.

 

Impressed with that statenemt. Cause and effect.. Nice 1 Norton.

 

Thanks

 

Only 9 players in the league have scored more than Maguire.

3 play for Peterborough and 4 more for teams below us.

It’s not just a goal scorer we lack, that’s a cop out.

We think the likes of Toney or Eisa etc don’t also miss chances?

Wyke isn’t missing 4 chances a game lads we are not making clear chances. Even when we played well v Rotherham for half an hour mostly they were shots from range.

I admire people sticking with it in a way, but it’s wrong. It’s not a goal scorer. It’s poor tactics, poor team selections throughout, largely terrible signings and a clear inability to motivate.

The man himself is starting to look beat as well, and he can backtrack all he likes but his words about the support where borne out of straining under pressure.

He’s a canny fella, he likely will become an ok manager, but he has had 3 windows and a full season plus to form a team and he hasn’t.

Even if we take the Maja thing, well nobody expected Maja to score that many, so if he built his empire around that it was foolhardy and fortunate.

Maja has scored ONE league goal prior to the season starting.

It’s not solely on him, it’s collective, some players haven’t stepped up, some are simply not good enough. Facts are, we aren’t improving, we’ve not performed well for the best part of 30 games. These are facts.

If we give it until January, who’s to say we aren’t already out of the running for automatic, realistically? Then who are we gonna sign who’s prepared to consider a possible extra season in the third tier?

This isn’t about Jack Ross, it’s about Sunderland football club. The new owners is a massive boost for us, but will mean nothing if we are floundering 2 divisions and 5 years from the PL.

Remember, no parachute factored in to next years budget if we stay down, we will be able to buy players of the calibre we have now, regardless of wealth. It has to be this season. It’s far, far bigger than a **** run.

I’d love stability on he managerial side, believe me, but to have that we have to have the right man and Jack isn’t going to take us there.

Sam was the right man, we got ****ed over and that accelerated our decline beyond our control. We have control this time. We have to do whys right for the next 3-5 years of the club.

How many of those sticking with Jack would have picked the sides he does? Honestly?

 

I don't agree with a lot of his team selections, I don't agree with a lot of what he appears to be doing tactically (I bloody hate it when he leaves us outnumbered in midfield). But that's me looking at it from the outside, as a fan. I can guarantee that there will be issues, problems etc in terms of what players can and can't do, how fit they are, how they work together, that we have no idea about. Yes, it's down to him to solve them but how do we know he doesn't have a plan to do that?

I'm not saying that no mistakes have been made under his watch, they certainly have. You're right, he struck it lucky with Maja but sometimes that little bit of luck is the difference but success and failure and between whether the fan base perceives and manager as good and bad.

Some of the criticism he receives is just bullshit. "Oh he just stands there with his hands in his pockets". Its absolute rubbish to suggest that means he doesn't care. He's never acted like he's beaten, unlike Moyes, and the thing about the fans is true. It's been said on here many times.

I'm not sticking with him because I don't think he's made mistakes. I'm sticking with him because another manager is going to face the same problems and nothing is going to change.

 

He looked beaten today mate.

I do take all of this on board, and as you’ll all know it’s only since Tuesday that I’ve really turned, but to say nothing is going to change?

Managerial changes work a lot of the time, especially if the current gaffer is a poor fit.

He experimented with ‘his’ system at the back despite not having the players for an extended period, he won’t play Embleton, who has that creative spark, he sets us up to retain possession rather than press, despite the fact that when we press, we look a very capable side.

These things are absolutely in his power mate. He will continue to pick the same side, even daft things like putting Ozturk in and out of the side are bewildering.

There’s a side capable of top 2 in that squad but he’s failed to find the formula, and do we hang on until it’s too late? As I’ve said a 3rd season in this league would be a hammer blow.

We haven’t even started on his crackpipe level substitutions and in game changes.

I just don’t think he’s the right man, the right fit. He’s had over a year to find a formula and we are arguably getting worse not better.

Was anyone massively surprised we didn’t batter them today? I predicted 1-1. That’s where we are. We don’t have faith that we can beat a side propping up the league who shipped 6 to Rotherham last week.

I will say, I don’t know who I’d bring in and we have to have that right before we change, but we have to be working towards that now. There’s no contingency plan for being 3 years in League One, there can’t be.

 

Oh yeah, the three at the back was a load of ****. Like I said, I don't think he hasn't made mistakes and I'd agree with you over most of the stuff you've said.

I believe he can get it right and I feel that he hasn't had the players to do that. I still feel that the problems hark back the Maja leaving/Grigg arriving period. Nothing seems to have worked properly since then and I wonder if the prevaricating is because is a result of that.

 

I likes Ross. I think he's not been dealt a good hand in terms of recruitment and outgoings, but as has been said he's not getting the best out of this squad. Once the away fans turn its over, but I have a feeling that it won't be official until the new owners are in place.

 

Ross is a disaster again this season.

The whole team is flat, the club is flat and he managed to quieten 4000 Sunderland supporters today.

I can excuse everything but a lack of fight and we may as well have walked out waving a white flag today.

Leaving Grigg on was absolutely pointless, he should go the same way as Ross.

It isn't working and nothing will kick start it now. Ross is currently our caretaker manager until his replacement arrives.

 

Yeah. End of the day we all have our views and time will tell the right and wrong answers.

It’s why I enjoy this forum things actually get discussed and debated rather than barked like they do elsewhere.

The new owners are gonna wanna change it, regardless of how valid any defence may be.

 

I wanted Ross to work but he hasn't.

The attack was shocking today, the defence was a shambles and we were outplayed in midfield.

And this was Bolton who have all of the excuses Ross loves ... cobbled together squad, lost good players, expectant crowd.

He's had all the leeway I can give him.

I was at Peterborough and at Bolton and it just isn't anywhere near good enough.

 

Let’s reiterate that the amount we can spend due to FFP is on a 3 year rolling period, if we stay down this year the PL factor is GONE and we are looking at potentially benign a Leeds and taking years to get back.

We must go up this year.

 

I'd say that backing Ross with some quality players would do that, probably quite comfortably. If the funds are there and I don't see why they wouldn't be we could get players in way above league one level.

It's worth remembering that we've only lost once this season and only six times under Ross in the league. That suggests to me that with minor improvements to the squad we turn some draws into wins and lose even less. Very rarely losing is a great foundation.

We're only three points away from second FFS I know people aren't happy with Ross but it's premature to be writing his obituary.

 

And which of the players he’s brought in support this theory mate? Genuine question.

 

Well if we bought someone like Maja we'd be scoring again. I'm talking about when the new owners come in and we've got more choice.

 

It Ross who signed grigg, bring back Graham Christ these managers keep doing it to us we HAVE to win the next to league games and are expected to sod the league cup and checkatrade this season

 

But he was heavily backed for the league we are on last season, whilst retaining a few Championship players, like Honeyman and Catts.

He signed all the defenders that can’t defend, he signed midfielders to play RB, he signed Grigg.

I’m not sure there’s anything to suggest he’d spend well.

Wasn’t there a suggestion it was him that declined Maddison as he ‘didn’t fancy him’?

 

Get better scouts in then, it's not usually the case that the manager scouts players and submits a list to the owner. You've said yourself that you thought Grigg would score goals, as did I, so surely you can't be too harsh on him for that.

We've had **** all to spend once the big gamble on Grigg was done and it shows. How many free transfers or very close to it are there in the squad? More than a couple.