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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    Boris is and hopefully it's not too late to get a deal.

    It's certainly what the hopeless May should have done.

    Round and round we go .
     
    #36801
  2. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    You still here?
     
    #36802
  3. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    Hardly 'sinister' then?

    Your inside knowledge is appreciated.
     
    #36803
  4. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    I think you'll find he said that there was a change under this administration whereby (the unelected) Cummings controls all the special advisors. I consider that somewhat sinister, but not so much as how Short (geddit?) seems to be dictating the tactics regarding avoiding parliamentary scrutiny.
     
    #36804
  5. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but the SpAds are also unelected. There has been a change of reporting line, but I think they are within their rights to do that and have been entirely up front about it. If Cummings was getting rid of elected Government Ministers, or indeed civil servants, I think we'd have a problem, but one SpAd getting rid of more junior SpAds (essentially political appointees, paid for my the Govt, which is already dodgy in my book) isn't the same. It's effectively an employee of the Tory Party getting rid of another employee of the Tory Party.

    As you all know, I'm by no means a Brexiteer, but some of the criticism in the last few days has been misdirected in my opinion. There is a lot to criticise that is very legitimate (again, IMO), but not the prorogation, or the firing of a SpAd. Frankly, I find it odd that someone who could work for Phil Hammond could also reconcile themselves with working for the Johnson administration anyway...

    EDIT - I do find the amount of power Cummings holds fascinating, but that is nothing new, as with the likes of Alistair Campbell, or Ed Llewellyn, who both held more power than most of the Cabinet in their day. A discussion on the rights or wrongs of that would make an interesting (and refreshing) change from the cyclical discussions on Brexit. I also find him fascinating as a thinker. If you've not read much of his blog I would really recommend it. You won't agree with it all, but you'll appreciate his thought processes and arguments most likely.
     
    #36805
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  6. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    If they were entirely up front about the change (I didn't know, but then why would I?), why was Javid reportedly so furious?

    Do you believe the line about the prorogation being perfectly normal and nothing to do with Brexit?
     
    #36806
  7. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    No, of course not, not at all. But I've made the point a few posts back that I think it's a moot point. If the opposition have enough votes, and are serious (and united) about stopping no deal, they could pass a VONC prior to prorogation. If they don't, then having four fewer sitting days is irrelevant as they don't have the numbers to stop no-deal.

    Even if they can't pass a VONC, they could wrest control of the order paper (as they did with the Cooper Act) and force the House to sit on the weekend.
     
    #36807
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  8. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    Faux outrage.

    Quality summed it up for us and he has excellent knowledge of these things.
     
    #36808
  9. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    So we have been lied to by Johnson, Rees Mogg et al, whilst ministers in Johnson's cabinet who, just a few weeks ago, were saying that prorogation would be an outrage, now duck their heads and say nothing due to the 'culture of fear' that Cummings has generated. Nothing sinister about this?
     
    #36809
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  10. QPR Oslo

    QPR Oslo Well-Known Member

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    What is a VONC Raving?
     
    #36810

  11. QPR Oslo

    QPR Oslo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Rudd for one.
     
    #36811
  12. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    Good grief!
    And you wonder why I use the word screeching?
    It's ridiculous.

    You're lot, like Soubrey, Clarke, Bercow, Miller, Grieve etc etc have tried every parliamentary and legal trick in the book ,but as soon as Boris does something similar, you all start wailing and crying.

    Pathetic hypocrisy.
     
    #36812
  13. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, Vote Of No Confidence. Parliamentary mechanism to bring down the Govt
     
    #36813
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  14. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, the line they're using is definitely quite far from the truth, with a grain of truth to cover their backs [that prorogation is normal, happens once a year, hasn't happened for two years, and is also normal for a new administration]. But political parties and Governments will always spin/lie so hardly shocking or sinister. Well, no more than normal politics is.
     
    #36814
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  15. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Anyway, enough for me tonight. Will celebrate a win with a few beers and the family :emoticon-0140-rofl:

    Have a lovely evening all.
     
    #36815
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  16. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Nothing faux (is that your word of the day?) about it.

    Genuine, justified outrage.

    Listen to yourself, Col.

    All of the 'tricks' performed by those trying to prevent No Deal, were legitimate and legal. Shutting down our sovereign parliament to avoid scrutiny and opposition is not legitimate in my view and is quite possibly illegal.
     
    #36816
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  17. QPR Oslo

    QPR Oslo Well-Known Member

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    Other than Millers legal challenge those "tricks" were parliamentary processes held to votes. Suspending parliament for a longer period to give little time for parliamentary process, is trying to block Parliament, avoiding the democracy the UK has in place.

    And the result of the now 3,5 year old Referendum vote based on lies, and lack of knowledge about what Leave meant, has no substance. Wrong to have been held, but if it is relevant to be considered at all, then it at the least needs to be done again with the better knowledge available now. Round and round again.
     
    #36817
  18. QPR Oslo

    QPR Oslo Well-Known Member

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    Right, thanks.
     
    #36818
  19. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Not attempts to prevent no deal, attempts to stop brexit happening.
    For over three ****ing years.
    Now Boris is playing them at their own game.
    Already lost one legal challenge.

    All within the rules.

    Brilliant by Boris.

    Round and round we go.
     
    #36819
  20. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    Utter rubbish.

    Round and round we go.
     
    #36820

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