Off Topic Politics Thread

I would add Denis Healey to that list. The best PM we never had. I loved Tony Benn in the early 70's but as time went on I realised the single flaw in his arguments. He said that if you explained things to people they would rise as one man in support of you. They won't even listen. Too busy watching Come a Dancing or some portly orange Essex bird.

 

Tony Benn always had a touching faith in the essential decency of the common man. That’s almost certainly because he never lived among them.

 

I mentioned several weeks back that Democratic Socialism is gaining a foothold in the USA. It has even gone as far as Trump addressing one of his rallies and mentioning Socialism [note, not Democratic Socialism] dismissively. He wouldn't be bothering to do that if it wasn't gaining popularity. He's even told 4 female USA born Democratic Progressive elected members of the House of Representatives [Democratic Socialists by another name], of ethnic backgrounds to 'Go Home to your ****hole countries'. When their ****hole country is actually the USA. But here's an interesting video, published a month ago by CNBC, on the history and new rise of Democratic Socialism in the USA. The message is clear that the people have had enough with all the income inequality, and that the American Dream is currently dead for all but few:

 

Cenk Uygur from The Young Turks. I cam across them several years back and subscribed, but never watched any videos. So eventually I unsubscribed. A few weeks back, YT's algorithm decided I needed to take another look at The Young Turks, and for once it was right. The channel is pretty good. Usually, they are studio based, but Cenk is out enjoying the warm weather, and doing his 'Trump voice' while relating on the President's madness and very small brain [smaller than Reagan's famously small brain which used to go missing - look it up]. Quite funny, along with the truths:

 

Come on, lets be democratic. Sometimes the portly orange birds are from Newcastle.

 

This one's from Aylesbury.

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I wonder just how much of a future there actually is for Right wing politics anywhere is the world. I think populism is at it's peak at the moment. As soon as people start to realise that Capitalism is responsible for global warming I think people will start to think again. It is disappointing that the Labour Party has really under-played this and, although I admire Corbyn, the party needs someone who is more charismatic and decisive so that the arguments can be presented in a fashion that is not so glibly dismissed. His response to the "coronation" of Johnson has been woeful and you wonder what the issue is with the loathsome Swinson who will not support a no confidence vote when the logical solution to avoiding a No Deal Brexit is to support Labour's no confidence vote. I think part politics should be set aside but the case argued by JC is such a no brainer that it is disappointing it does not have widespread support from intelligent people.

As far as the Conservative Party is concerned, as I said on here previously, whenever they have a crisis, it becomes a crisis for the country. They are as dangerous as the far Right and ISIS in their own way and I would like to see them proscribed. The policies offered by JC would make a genuine positive difference to most people but I think that Labour would be thwarted by whatever underhand and dirty means the Tories could muster just as in 1969 Mountbatten and his cohorts sought to overthrow the Wilson government with a coup - something that was, thankfully, ultimately rejected as the sight of putting soldiers on the street was deemed too ridiculous.

 

1. What? She's "loathsome"? For what? Disagreeing with you and Corbyn about a VNC being the correct solution here? You are aware that Corbyn is a politician, not a saint, and is furiously pursuing a VNC because it leads him to power? "Loathsome"? Jesus wept.

2. There are plenty of ways for Parliament to block No Deal without the sledgehammer of a VNC. And they are progressing nicely. Don't believe the Tory spin that there aren't. Remember, historically, every single time the executive has tried to face down Parliament, Parliament has won. And, don't forget, the Speaker has expressed exactly how it should be done. He couldn't be any more clear in his intent to allow Parliament to have its way.

3. I'll say something for nothing: I don't want to live in a country where that could happen. What a disgraceful comment.

Vin

 

I'm with The Onion on this one.

 

My final comment in the post above was "You should be banned from the forum for even making the suggestion"

In blue, so sarcastic and very clearly a jokey self-contradictory comment on the stupidity of banning people for what they think (as Ian has advocated). However, a moderator has taken issue with it and deleted it without bothering to tell me either that they had done it or why they did so. A bit heavy handed, no?

Going on previous form, I'll shortly be threatened with a ban for highlighting this. Oh, the irony.

Vin

 

It does make you wonder doesn't it?

 

Vin

Thanks for your response and despite not agreeing with everything, there are some points such as the role of John Bercow where I stand corrected to your assessment.

I would have to disagreed with your post as you would expect. Let's now lose fact that Jo Swinson was part of the coalition with the government and had a large say in the austerity measures introduced by that government. No one should trust the Liberals who will tend to say what people want to hear but ultimately are very quick to set aside their beliefs and values should that bring them to power. Anyone thinking of voting for this party in the next election must take this into consideration.

I think that the current situation requires whatever means are necessary to get Johnson out of No. 10 as quickly as possible. I would advocate any legal means necessary, either through parliament or by mass movement. He is unfit to govern and the likes of Johnson and Trump are going to make some terrible decisions which will affect the country and the planet for decades to come. Regardless of anyone's opinion of Corbyn (and I would argue that he has underperformed since the last General Election) backing a VNC is the only option in town to thwart Johnson through the vehicle of Parliament. The option was for Corbyn to be put in temporary charge and it was proposed that once the temporary government had managed to take control of the Brexit process, another general election should be called whereby the people can decide whether or not to accept him as Prime Minister.

I think we should all be wary of a Johnson government and the damage that will ensure, not just internally but on a global stage. Regardless of my opinion of Corbyn, he is safer pair of hands than Johnson and I feel that the likes of the Liberals and the Tory faction let by the likes of Hammond need to set aside party politics and vote for what they truly believe in.

 

Can anyone really say that the Conservative Party has done nothing other than harm to this country? They have had a history of thwarting social mobility. political mobility and justice, have caused mayhem in Ireland since the days of Parnell, created the unrestrained and unmanaged growth of the market economy and have been embroiled in all the main political scandals in the 20th century from Suez, to Profumo and Westland onwards. Brexit is without doubt, the most serious constitutional crisis this country has seen and will result in the break up of the United Kingdom. This is a political party who has censored dissent in Northern Ireland as well as implemented a "shoot to kill" policy , created a rail service few people can now afford, means tested the disabled, advocated stop and search, introduced austerity measures so that the people now serve the economy and not the other way around. On top of that, they have created an environment where the likes of Tommy Robinson can spill his vile message and have ensured that foreigners are not welcome in this country.

Why would anyone want to preserve a political party with such an abject record?

 

No it isn't. That's what the Tories keep telling you but it's simply not true. Incorrect. You are wrong. Not right. You're falling for their lies. They want a VNC so they can hold Corbyn to blame for the failure of Brexit and so win back Brexit Party voters in a General Election. Don't buy their propaganda.

Here's proof there are other ways: Have you forgotten Parliament forcing the executive to extend Article 50 last time? The people who did that last time are still there, the rules are the same and Bercow is still going to do everything in his power to allow Parliament to be sovereign.

Vin

 

The standard of decency, honesty and general fairness of the common man has slipped drastically since Thatcher fostered a greed is good, dog eat dog selfish society (she never believed in society). apparently communities used to leave their back doors open all day for the neighbourhood to pop in.
The chickens have come home to roost ever since the 80s as that was the beginnings of an underclass of disenfranchised people in the UK and the poverty gap has grown ever since (even under New Labour).
The general public used to be able to rely of steady employment in a strong community, now employment for many has never been as insecure as it is with zero hours contracts and less worker's rights, no wonder some see crime as an easy escape out of that life, i'm not excusing it though..

And all that suffering she put 3 million people through (including me) in the early 80s was purely ideological and not necessary just as austerity has not been for the last decade which has also hit the people at the bottom the hardest.

 

John Stonehouse faked suicide
Wilson's resignation honours list
Hutton Enquiry
Weapons of Mass Destruction
Cash for peerages
MPs' expenses.

All under Labour.



As for "a rail service few people can now afford":

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Might be worth reading my signature.

Vin

 

The fact that record numbers of people are now using the railways - mostly for their daily commute to work - does not in any way bear testimony to it’s affordability, nor it’s efficiency.

The cost keeps going up, the quality of service keeps declining, but the shareholders get their dividends so that’s alright. Meanwhile, when things go wrong no one is accountable. Last summer when Thameslink was in total meltdown, the Transport Minister said “I don’t run the railway”. That was obviously true, but I don’t think it’s something Chris Grayling should have been boasting about .

 

The people who pay to commute can clearly afford them. You might not agree with me but train commuters seem to be amongst the better-off in society. In your socialist utopia would you have poorer people pay taxes in order to subsidise bankers on their way to work?

Grayling's a tosspot of the highest order.

Vin

 

I work on the railway mate. It's not bankers on their way to work that I see every day, it's ordinary working people unable to afford the cost of housing in London.

In my Socialist Utopia, I'd build houses for working people to live in. Like we used to do in this country, between 1945 - 1979 (under Labour and Conservative governments).