Off Topic The Politics Thread

The Mayor of London has welcomed the announcement.

The thing is, all of Johnson's promises and aspirations will be meaningless in the event of No Deal, because they will become undeliverable.

 

How so?

 

Because there'll be no money.

 

Not trying to be funny, just trying to follow your logic.

Why won’t there be any money?

 

Well you should should have

 

Sorry, not 'can do' enough for you?

We'll see I suppose, but I really hope we don't have to. Leaving with no deal would be an act of pure recklessness in my opinion.

 

Nothing at all to do with ‘can do’, Strolls. I just didn’t understand where all the money goes in the event of a ‘no deal’. I was hoping to be educated, but perhaps you’re not wholly convinced by your own statement too?

 

We'll be in recession, Ubes,

But that's just project fear, so no need to worry.

 

Germany's apparently possibly allegedly about to enter a recession too
When did they leave

 

But will we (be in recession)? Serious question.

Markets like certainty. What we have now is massive uncertainty. Whatever deal or no deal is the outcome, markets tend to adapt and then recover.

Yes, I s’pose it is a little ‘can do’ in nature, but what’s wrong with that?

I’ve been reading a fair bit of journalistic opinion around why May failed and what, if anything, could be different for Johnson. I’ve also seen Barnier’s reaction to Johnson’s opening speech.

We all know that the EU can’t afford to make Brexit too easy for the UK for fear that other member states will want to follow suit. But that just energises the ‘plucky Brit’ within me to want it more.

When a Barnier or a Tusk wants it to be a painful divorce for the UK there’s something within me akin to centuries of bold British obstinacy. Even if it’ll be painful in the short term, I want to show the EU more so that we can survive and thrive without being a fully paid up member of the club.

This country is pretty good at standing up for itself and winning.

 

**** the markets, it's real jobs and real lives that are at risk. May failed because the ERG loons were saw an inch and wanted a mile. Pure reckless dogma.

 

We're all doomed, doomed I tell yer!

 

Sensationally good post.

 

Like I said, Strolls, there’ll be pain and nobody should take pleasure in others losing their livelihoods. I’ve been there and it’s not a great deal of fun. In fact, I’m sort of there now for another reason.

I believe, however, that this country will recover and quite quickly. Cold comfort for those out of work, but we must do all we can to support them and get them back into work ASAP.

Without wishing to be complacent and glib, businesses relocate or shut up shop all the time. People lose their jobs as a consequence. I hope we don’t see this on a greater scale through Brexit.

If you were on the EU side of the Brexit negotiations, would you want to leave the UK with so **** a deal that you’re willing to make so many people collateral damage just to maintain the standing and power of your nasty little project? Says a lot about those in power there if that’s the case.

With the greatest of respect - and you know I respect you - you’re now making different arguments rather than responding to your original ‘all the money will be gone’ claims.

 

And bollox to any idiot remainers who think it isn’t , touché!!!

 

I don't think I am making different arguments at all. If businesses have gone to the wall and countless jobs have been lost, tax revenues will be down and the government will have less to spend - the money will be gone. Yes, businesses fail and people lose jobs all the time, but we would be choosing to inflict this on them. Your blaming the EU for whatever damage ensues is completely wrong - leaving with no deal would be our choice, and for what? The deal May agreed was not nearly as awful as many like to pretend. If the Tory Brextremists had gone along with it, we'd be out by now but in a transition period where economic damage was mitigated whilst new trading arrangements were agreed.

 

Just believe stroller, have optimism, that will pay the bills!

 

This is it in a nutshell. The difference of the past few days where there is positive leadership and a clear goal, none of the pathetic grovelling of a Remainer PM trying to please the MPs who would ultimately stop at nothing to thwart her at every step and ending up with a deal that was worse than staying in.

I've always thought the EU was a good idea that got way above itself, a free market that morphed into a monolith that wanted to control every facet of it's members 'freedom' to the point you were subservient. We'll be well rid of it before it destroys itself. Just look at those who were recently 'elected' without opposition but only just, failed German minister Ursula von der Leyen as President of the EU Commission, who was 'nominated' behind closed doors by the European Council without any opposition, a sidekick of Merkel and a rabid federalist. Also Charles Michel selected as the new President of the European Council without opposition, the Belgian is a close ally of Macron, and look how well he's doing in France, so once again there's a strong Franco/German grip on the top posts. It seems the majority of MEPs are furious with what has been foisted on them and point out they wouldn't accept this sort of outcome in their own countries, so why is it being allowed to happen?

Anyone who thinks this is the way forward must be deluded, Europe is headed for recession so there is no better time to jump the sinking ship...

 

I don't got the words. https://www.itv.com/news/2019-07-26/itv-news-exclusive-jacob-rees-mogg-issues-style-guide-to-staff/

 

There’s a lot in there. In no particular order...

1, I’m not seeking to blame the EU if there are short-term acute economic difficulties for the UK. It is the UK that’s seeking to leave after all; not the EU expelling them. All I’m saying is that if part of the EU’s strategy is to inflict stark economic hardship on a leaving state in order to deter others from following suit, then shame on them.

2, Yes, in my opinion May’s exit plan was a better outcome than no deal, to the extent that I understood the minutiae of her proposal. I’m with the lovely Miss Caroline Flint, however, in that we must honour the outcome of the referendum and leave. The shame sits with the MPs of all liveries for forcing us down the no deal route in their pathetic and undemocratic attempts to reverse the (slim, but no less a) majority opinion of the electorate. I know the response to this from you, Oslo, Watford etc. so let’s not bother, eh?

3, Even with the prospect of lower tax revenues and a deficit to reduce a few years ago it was still the view of them in the red corner that we should spend our way out with infrastructure projects and the like. Now I’d imagine that policy doesn’t sit well with the current argument so is abandoned?

4, We have no idea whether there’d be an immediate downturn or not. There might be a honeymoon period of rising prosperity for all we know. If I was in government right now I’d be sucking up to the Yanks, Japs, Indians and (maybe the) Chinese etc. to create the right environment for their inward investment. I’d be prepared to offer tax incentives in return for jobs, which themselves will swell the tax coffers with PAYE, NIC and VAT as spending in the economy is always the key. How hard can it be when you’re Eton/Oxbridge educated and running a show that’s unencumbered by European red tape and protocol to drum up deals that deliver this? Of course, we’ll shape some deals well and some not so, but put an expiry date, caveats and parameters on such things and you’re away. Christ, I could do these and I was educated in a bucket of horse ****!

5, It wasn’t just Tory Brexitremists (good one!) that scuppered May’s deal. Corbyn’s Commissars have taken three years to declare where they think they are in the whole shooting match, and that was just a shameless ‘about turn’ to win votes back from the Nambies after recent electoral mailings. Very strange, seeing that the blue collar heartlands that used to pay their wages voted to leave. Further evidence, should any be needed, that they’ve abandoned these heartlands and are very much in the thrall of the Islington Champagne Socialist Brigade.

6, Back to ‘can do’. We all know that influential people talking doom & gloom becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s a nice lazy way for political and economic commentators to appear to be authorities on their subjects. If there was more positivity about this we’d fare much better. Talk us down continuously on the telly and people get frightened, batten down the hatches and, sure as eggs is eggs, you get the worst possible outcome. Sadly, you can’t run two realities and fast forward to assess their respective outcomes, but just because one decision is less certain than the other doesn’t mean it’s outcome is likely to be worse.