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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    #34961
  2. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    #34962
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  3. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    nice face of toryism

    Councillor David Smith to face child sex offence charges
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    Image copyright Teesside Live
    Image caption Councillor David Smith described the allegations as "damaging lies"
    A Teesside councillor has been charged with a string of sex offences.
    David Smith, who represents Coulby Newham on Middlesbrough Council, faces nine counts of sexual touching of a child.
    The 30-year-old, who has resigned from the Conservative party but remains a councillor, denies what he called the "spurious allegations".
    Mr Smith, who was elected in May, is due to appear at Teesside Magistrates' Court on 7 August.
    In a statement, Mr Smith said he was resigning from the Tory party and Middlesbrough Council Conservative Group "with immediate effect", the Local Democracy Reporting Service said.
    "I completely reject these spurious allegations and removing myself from the party will ensure I can focus all my efforts on fighting to clear my name," he added.
    Following his election, he petitioned Middlesbrough Mayor Andy Preston to trial gender-neutral toilets at Middlesbrough Council.
    Last month he apologised for comments he made to the Middlesbrough FC fan page Fly Me To The Moon in which he referred to people on benefits as "rotten pond life families that should be sterilised and washed".
     
    #34963
  4. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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  5. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    so many choices
    who would you vote for
    maybe we could have a poll
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    #34965
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  6. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    be a bit long for stroller but its not a bad piece

    The tragedy of the Arabs
    A civilisation that used to lead the world is in ruins—and only the locals can rebuild it

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    print-edition iconPrint edition | Leaders
    A THOUSAND years ago, the great cities of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo took turns to race ahead of the Western world. Islam and innovation were twins. The various Arab caliphates were dynamic superpowers—beacons of learning, tolerance and trade. Yet today the Arabs are in a wretched state. Even as Asia, Latin America and Africa advance, the Middle East is held back by despotism and convulsed by war.

    Hopes soared three years ago, when a wave of unrest across the region led to the overthrow of four dictators—in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Yemen—and to a clamour for change elsewhere, notably in Syria. But the Arab spring’s fruit has rotted into renewed autocracy and war. Both engender misery and fanaticism that today threaten the wider world.
    Why Arab countries have so miserably failed to create democracy, happiness or (aside from the windfall of oil) wealth for their 350m people is one of the great questions of our time. What makes Arab society susceptible to vile regimes and fanatics bent on destroying them (and their perceived allies in the West)? No one suggests that the Arabs as a people lack talent or suffer from some pathological antipathy to democracy. But for the Arabs to wake from their nightmare, and for the world to feel safe, a great deal needs to change.

    The blame game

    One problem is that the Arab countries’ troubles run so wide. Indeed, Syria and Iraq can nowadays barely be called countries at all. This week a brutal band of jihadists declared their boundaries void, heralding instead a new Islamic caliphate to embrace Iraq and Greater Syria (including Israel-Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan and bits of Turkey) and—in due course—the whole world. Its leaders seek to kill non-Muslims not just in the Middle East but also in the streets of New York, London and Paris. Egypt is back under military rule. Libya, following the violent demise of Muammar Qaddafi, is at the mercy of unruly militias. Yemen is beset by insurrection, infighting and al-Qaeda. Palestine is still far from true statehood and peace: the murders of three young Israelis and ensuing reprisals threaten to set off yet another cycle of violence

    ). Even countries such as Saudi Arabia and Algeria, whose regimes are cushioned by wealth from oil and gas and propped up by an iron-fisted apparatus of state security, are more fragile than they look. Only Tunisia, which opened the Arabs’ bid for freedom three years ago, has the makings of a real democracy.
    Islam, or at least modern reinterpretations of it, is at the core of some of the Arabs’ deep troubles. The faith’s claim, promoted by many of its leading lights, to combine spiritual and earthly authority, with no separation of mosque and state, has stunted the development of independent political institutions. A militant minority of Muslims are caught up in a search for legitimacy through ever more fanatical interpretations of the Koran. Other Muslims, threatened by militia violence and civil war, have sought refuge in their sect. In Iraq and Syria plenty of Shias and Sunnis used to marry each other; too often today they resort to maiming each other. And this violent perversion of Islam has spread to places as distant as northern Nigeria and northern England.

    But religious extremism is a conduit for misery, not its fundamental cause (see article). While Islamic democracies elsewhere (such as Indonesia—see article) are doing fine, in the Arab world the very fabric of the state is weak. Few Arab countries have been nations for long. The dead hand of the Turks’ declining Ottoman empire was followed after the first world war by the humiliation of British and French rule. In much of the Arab world the colonial powers continued to control or influence events until the 1960s. Arab countries have not yet succeeded in fostering the institutional prerequisites of democracy—the give-and-take of parliamentary discourse, protection for minorities, the emancipation of women, a free press, independent courts and universities and trade unions.

    The absence of a liberal state has been matched by the absence of a liberal economy. After independence, the prevailing orthodoxy was central planning, often Soviet-inspired. Anti-market, anti-trade, pro-subsidy and pro-regulation, Arab governments strangled their economies. The state pulled the levers of economic power—especially where oil was involved. Where the constraints of post-colonial socialism were lifted, capitalism of the crony, rent-seeking kind took hold, as it did in the later years of Egypt’s Hosni Mubarak. Privatisation was for pals of the government. Virtually no markets were free, barely any world-class companies developed, and clever Arabs who wanted to excel in business or scholarship had to go to America or Europe to do so.

    Economic stagnation bred dissatisfaction. Monarchs and presidents-for-life defended themselves with secret police and goons. The mosque became a source of public services and one of the few places where people could gather and hear speeches. Islam was radicalised and the angry men who loathed their rulers came to hate the Western states that backed them. Meanwhile a vast number of the young grew restless because of unemployment. Thanks to the electronic media, they were increasingly aware that the prospects of their cohort outside the Middle East were far more hopeful. The wonder is not that they took to the streets in the Arab spring, but that they did not do so sooner.

    A lot of ruin

    These wrongs cannot easily or rapidly be put right. Outsiders, who have often been drawn to the region as invaders and occupiers, cannot simply stamp out the jihadist cause or impose prosperity and democracy. That much, at least, should be clear after the disastrous invasion and occupation of Iraq in 2003. Military support—the supply of drones and of a small number of special forces—may help keep the jihadists in Iraq at bay. That help may have to be on permanent call. Even if the new caliphate is unlikely to become a recognisable state, it could for many years produce jihadists able to export terrorism.

    But only the Arabs can reverse their civilisational decline, and right now there is little hope of that happening. The extremists offer none. The mantra of the monarchs and the military men is “stability”. In a time of chaos, its appeal is understandable, but repression and stagnation are not the solution. They did not work before; indeed they were at the root of the problem. Even if the Arab awakening is over for the moment, the powerful forces that gave rise to it are still present. The social media which stirred up a revolution in attitudes cannot be uninvented. The men in their palaces and their Western backers need to understand that stability requires reform.

    Is that a vain hope? Today the outlook is bloody. But ultimately fanatics devour themselves. Meanwhile, wherever possible, the moderate, secular Sunnis who comprise the majority of Arab Muslims need to make their voices heard. And when their moment comes, they need to cast their minds back to the values that once made the Arab world great. Education underpinned its primacy in medicine, mathematics, architecture and astronomy. Trade paid for its fabulous metropolises and their spices and silks. And, at its best, the Arab world was a cosmopolitan haven for Jews, Christians and Muslims of many sects, where tolerance fostered creativity and invention.

    Pluralism, education, open markets: these were once Arab values and they could be so again. Today, as Sunnis and Shias tear out each others’ throats in Iraq and Syria and a former general settles onto his new throne in Egypt, they are tragically distant prospects. But for a people for whom so much has gone so wrong, such values still make up a vision of a better future.
     
    #34966
  7. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    The establishment mobilising today against Extinction Rebellion, branding their leadership as ‘anarchists’ intent on destroying our democracy and capitalism, unwittingly supported by masses of well meaning dupes.

    They might be right. But it doesn’t change the challenge of climate change, plastics pollution etc. I congratulate capitalist liberal democracy on the very effective demonisation of the word ‘anarchist’*. And it is true that those who call themselves anarchists and think that it consists of occupying the streets, inconveniencing people, causing criminal damage etc give anarchism a bad name, and given that these movements have ‘leaders’ show that they can’t be anarchist in any way. They also wouldn’t have the faintest idea what to do if they succeeded in their aims.

    I hope this sideshow doesn’t distract too much from the real issues that these rather crass demonstrations are trying to highlight.

    *In news from the US, it’s appears that not only has the term ‘socialist’ been effectively demonised as well, but ‘progressive’ has been added to the list in addition. Newspeak.
     
    #34967
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
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  8. Willhoops

    Willhoops Well-Known Member

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    <applause> In the world of soundbite over substance politics, control the meaning of words, control the people.
     
    #34968
  9. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    The word ‘Anarchist’ has been misused for years and as you quite rightly say say G, has now become a symbol of destruction and chaos.

    It suits the MSM and the government to label it as that, just as it suits many on the ‘Anarchist’ side to play up to the hype eg Black Bloc.

    I bet most have never read a word or even heard of the likes of Emma Goldman or Lucy Parsons.....
     
    #34969
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  10. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    The bloke who was representing Extinction Rebellion on the Today programme completely owned John Humphreys though, it was great fun.
     
    #34970
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  11. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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    I have to say although I agree with much of what ER state I do believe they are in danger of alienating a large swathe of their sympathisers with their habit of targeting the public rather than the politicians/companies they should be aiming at. In London in particular the gig economy is seriously affected, my job can be disrupted to the point you can't earn, for those dependent on that income it can have serious consequences, effectively, it's a form of urban terrorism issuing ultimatums and threatening various disruptive strategies. I'm surprised they have been indulged this long, I expect we're not far from the tipping point...
     
    #34971
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  12. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    If this is driven by ersatz so called anarchists their objective really is maximum disruption to economic activity (which they could claim to be in the interests of the planet), but I’m sure most people on the streets don’t think like that, they just want to see some concrete action being taken.

    Sadly the best thing for managing climate change is really a catastrophic collapse in the global economy.
     
    #34972
  13. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    But unlike Prince Andrew, there isn't a photograph in circulation of Trump with his arm around the bare waist of one of Epstein's under-age sex slaves
     
    #34973
  14. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    Weren’t they Britain’s 1978 Eurovision hopefuls?
     
    #34974
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  15. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    nazis
    fascists
    taliban
    whats the next insult going to be


    Tory MP compares members to Taliban and says colleagues too afraid to speak out over Brexit
    Dominic Grieve says no-deal Brexit 'unacceptable to a 'substantial number' of Conservative MPs
    A senior Tory MP has compared Conservative grassroots members to the Taliban and warned that MPs are afraid to speak out over Brexit due to fears of being deselected.
    Dominic Grieve, the former attorney general, argued that there was Conservative support for a second referendum but some MPs were reluctant to act following confidence motions against several pro-EU Tories.
    Speaking at an event in London, Mr Grieve said Boris Johnson had been "radicalised" over Brexit, leaving a Final Say referendum as the only credible option to thwart a disorderly exit from the EU in the autumn.
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    His comments came after Mr Johnson told a leadership hustings that the Irish backstop proposal was "dead" and vowed to scrap it from any Brexit deal.
    Mr Grieve, who has led a string of Brexit rebellions, said there was a "substantial number" of Conservative MPs for whom "no-deal is completely unacceptable" but admitted that there was a lot of "can-kicking" underway.
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    Johnson warned Brexit without fresh referendum will be 'kamikaze'

    He told a People's Vote event: "They do exist. They sometimes have concerns about their own local associations and the fear of being deselected, I think there is absolutely no doubt about that.
    "There has been a sort of Talibanisation of sections of the Conservative Party grassroots membership, with some vociferous minorities that are often capable of dominating meetings coming along trying to get rid of MPs, interestingly enough, who have been totally loyal but simply have indicated by the occasional expression of doubt that the purity of the ERG Brexit vision might be mistaken.
    "They have been at the rough end of quite a lot of difficulty and I think that's one of the reasons why they tend to hide a little behind the parapet."
    Mr Grieve is among several pro-EU Tories who have faced confidence votes over Brexit from their local associations, including Philip Lee, Sam Gyimah and David Gauke.
    He raised the prospect that he will resign the Tory whip in the likely event that Mr Johnson becomes prime minister next week over concerns about his suitability to lead.
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    Mr Johnson's bid to become prime minister looks all but assured, with the results of the ballot of Tory members expected next week.
    Mr Grieve said the Tory frontrunner's pledge to scrap the backstop were an example of how the leadership race has been "played to a tune of growing extremism".
    He said: "When challenged and confronted he radicalised even further and excluded any possibility of trying to negotiate some way out of the backstop at all. It had to go in its totality.
    "The consequence of that is make it the choices starker and starker."

    Ex-Labour foreign secretary Margaret Beckett told the event that she was not surprised by Mr Johnson's backstop comments, adding: "I've thought for weeks, months, if it came to it they would be prepared to throw the Irish situation under a bus.
    "That they should however take that point of view I think is quite terrifying, considering what we know and what the problems in Ireland have been in the past."
    Both MPs were speaking at the launch of a cross-party study that warned all other routes out of the Brexit crisis - such as a general election or renegotiating Theresa May's deal - were doomed to fail.
    The next prime minister would then be forced to suspend parliament to force through a no-deal but would face an immediate confidence vote, the report argues.
     
    #34975
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  16. Woodyhoopleson

    Woodyhoopleson Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. There also are not 25 odd flight records of him jetting off with Epstein to the island, with no secret service, unlike Clinton. I hope Epstein doesn't shoot himself twice in the back of the head before he squeals.

    Interesting, isn't it, how all the focus is on trump and none on Clinton, Andrew etc.
     
    #34976
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  17. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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    He's a marked man as far as the press are concerned...
     
    #34977
  18. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Louis Stedman-Bryce‏Verified account@Lstedmanbryce 24h24 hours ago
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    I was shocked that failed former German Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen won!
    It was a close race between Ursula & Ursula, but Ursula pipped Ursula to the post.
    So, europhiles, with such a small margin of victory, are we getting hard or soft Ursula?
    When’s the Revote?...
     
    #34978
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  19. DT’s Socks

    DT’s Socks Well-Known Member

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    Agree have mates who have joined the cause
    One mate in Sussex has 22 power sockets just in his kitchen
    String the ****ers up
     
    #34979
  20. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    are they all on all the time
     
    #34980
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