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The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Wandering Yid, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    What a shame, Sadiq Khan has rejected the chance of having a giant dildo form part of the London skyline

    please log in to view this image
     
    #11081
  2. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    Sheik Marktoum has 23 kids.Don't think he needs one!
     
    #11082
  3. vimhawk

    vimhawk Well-Known Member

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    Presumably that is based on a perceived opinion about leaving the EU. I haven't heard many people suggesting we leave NATO. Are you suggesting it is the EU that has kept the peace since the war? I don't care what people's opinion about Brexit is, the EU is not (yet) a military organisation, it is NATO that has prevented general war. There has been a lot of misinformation in this debate on both sides, but one that seems to be very confused is the idea that EU has something to do with countries not fighting each other. And given the circumstances over which WW2 was fought, I would have been proud to have participated in that conflict as there are not many more better examples of "just war".
     
    #11083
  4. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    With some EU politniks dreaming of an EU superstate (with military power
    aspirations therein) , I would be in favour of a true geographic NATO
    (USA, Canada, UK, Iceland etc) being formed, and the EU doing its own thing.

    The EU and this new NATO would be at liberty to agree new military pacts.


    "Are you suggesting it is the EU that has kept the peace since the war?
    I don't care what people's opinion about Brexit is, the EU is not (yet) a military organisation,
    it is NATO that has prevented general war. There has been a lot of misinformation in this debate on both sides,
    but one that seems to be very confused is the idea that EU has something to do with countries not fighting each other.."

    To be more specific, the reason that western Europe since 1945 :

    1. has seen no serious military conflict
    2. are not satellite states of the USSR

    is because for 50 odd years the USA has been Europes' military "lender of last resort" .
    Any claims that NATO minus USA during that time period could have put up a decent
    fight would be laughably embarrassing.


    "And given the circumstances over which WW2 was fought, I would have been proud to have participated
    in that conflict as there are not many more better examples of "just war".

    Sorry, but the greatest most just "war against fascism" , is being fought right now,
    by those brave masked black shirts risking their very lives armed with nothing more
    than milkshakes and bicycle locks. 1939-45 is a mere "handbags" fight by comparison.

    Don't live in shame when your grandchildren ask you :

    What did you do during the milkshake war ??
     
    #11084
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  5. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm saying that the Leave tubthumpers who bang on about how great WWII was tend to have been born in 1948
     
    #11085
  6. vimhawk

    vimhawk Well-Known Member

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    I might be being thick but I just don't get that one. I'd just rather keep the military and war discussions separate from Brexit completely. This means leavers not going all nationalistic and remainers to making unfounded claims about the EU being a peacekeeping force. I'm still not quite sure about what you mean by "great" in the WW2 context because it clearly has different meaning. I could use this term but would likely mean something different than most. For me it was a time when most of the people and the country in general was "great", and I say that with fair knowledge of history, and I am not apologising for saying it. And I wasn't born in 1948 and do not consider myself tubthumping. I don't go around telling people what a great thing WW2 was, but I will take issue with people that do not understand it's origins and significance.
     
    #11086
  7. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    And that's the problem, you can't keep discussion of Britait and the Second World War separate since so many prominent Leavers can, do and will bring up spurious comparisons any chance they get, for example...






    For context, here's the date of birth of each of those individuals who are so quick to invoke comparisons between the two
    Daniel Kawczynski - 24th January 1972
    Mark Francois - 14th August 1965
    Boris Johnson - 19th June 1964
    Jeremy Hunt - 1st November 1966
    Jacob Rees-Mogg - 24th May 1969
    David Davis - 23rd December 1948
     
    #11087
  8. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    The only true thing about remarks about :

    1. 1939-45
    2. leaving the EU

    is that for #1, there was orders of magnitude more at stake
    for the UK AND the world, both during and after, by several
    measurable dimensions.

    Any attempts to compare the consequences of 2 with 1 is
    laughably embarrassing at best, insulting (to our kin who died
    in their millions) at worst.
     
    #11088
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  9. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Also

    3. They're made by people who have no recollection of WWII due to not being born until several years after it finished
     
    #11089
  10. vimhawk

    vimhawk Well-Known Member

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    It's a difficult one. I happen to think that Germany does rather dominate the EU, and most benefits from it. I also think that WW2 should be required learning for all Brits, not just our contribution but the whole thing, but as far as our contribution goes we should be proud of it. However I am not going to say that we fought WW2 in order to stop Germany becoming dominant in Europe which is what has sort of happened. I disagree with anyone who links Brexit with the war, but as I said before, I also disagree with those who make inflated claims for what the EU is or has done.
     
    #11090

  11. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    That always ticked me off how the Marshall plan helped rebuild Europe while Britain was "forgotten"!
    When they say America "saved the world" that's not quite right. The RAF saved the world in 1940. The Russians and the USA won the war with a lot of help.
    Let's not have another war,please,Trump and Iran. Who can win?
     
    #11091
  12. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    Not really.

    The consequences to the UK / EU / world, due to the referendum result,
    are nominal. There will be a period of temporary grief for all sides, and then things
    will be ok for all going their own merry ways.

    The notion that the UK will experience economic grief even remotely
    comparable to the post 1945 landscape, is just laughable.


    "I happen to think that Germany does rather dominate the EU, and most benefits from it."

    They are the biggest stakeholder in the project, so you would expect that.


    "I also think that WW2 should be required learning for all Brits, not just our contribution but the whole thing, but as far as our
    contribution goes we should be proud of it. However I am not going to say that we fought WW2 in order to stop Germany
    becoming dominant in Europe which is what has sort of happened."

    Entered in 1939 due to signing a military pact to defend Poland.

    Ended in 1945 having learned (when the dust had settled) the terrible consequences
    for much of the world had we lost (ie what had truly been fought for) .

    Stood our ground for long enough, due to a combination of 20 odd miles of water +
    UK tech brilliance + moments of enemy hubris/stupidity.


    "I disagree with anyone who links Brexit with the war, but as I said before,
    I also disagree with those who make inflated claims for what the EU is or has done."

    Indeed.
    Neither Europe, nor the world, is a more virtuous / prosperous / safer place due to
    any stage of this European project. For that they need to thank their big mate that
    has long possessed a very big stick and an equally strong arm to wield it.
     
    #11092
  13. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    On the subject of tropes invoked by the Leaver set...
     
    #11093
  14. vimhawk

    vimhawk Well-Known Member

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    You could argue that there was double jeopardy for the UK because we ended the war in massive debt to the US which we then spent decades repaying. The last chancellor to sign off a cheque for war debt payments was .... Gordon Brown.
     
    #11094
  15. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    AFAIK the USA did not impose "profiteering" interest rates
    on the loan, which could have made things much worse
    (perhaps their entry into the war killed any thoughts they may
    have had on that front) .
     
    #11095
  16. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    Hold it.Forget Trump and Brexit. More important news.

    We are about to have a black actress take over the title of 007. Different character but same number. Craig will say goodbye.

    Come back Sean,even at 80.....
     
    #11096
  17. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    It's poker, isn't it? No. No, it isn't.
     
    #11097
  18. Left on the Shelf

    Left on the Shelf Well-Known Member

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    #11098
  19. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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  20. Left on the Shelf

    Left on the Shelf Well-Known Member

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    EU elect Ursula von der Leyen by an approx 52/48% and for some reason Farage finds that unacceptably close to provide a mandate.
    So we can expect him to start supporting #revokearticle50

    (And for good measure the Brexit MEP's rock up in a break and claim they're the only ones attending the vote... <doh>)

     
    #11100

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