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How to fix F1

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by El_Bando, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    Having read through the comments of the last 24 hours, there is a view expressed that F1 should be opened up to more driver error. Whether the perception of the need is ignorant of the current challenges is irrelevant to some extent, perception translates to audience participation, empathy, enjoyment and thereby audience numbers.
    No one doubts the challenge the drivers are facing, how fit they have to be, how tooth fillings have to be extremely well fitted (assuming they even have any in this day and age), how they have to multitask complex operations while still striving to be competitive. The visual of the cornering at Monaco, brushing and even riding the barriers in Monaco on those corners which do not have an upright support on the apex clearly demonstrates the skill and accuracy, lap after lap, that drivers have to deliver They face tough challenges, drive faster etc. The audience, who ultimately are paying for the sport, need to feel entertained and commentary such as, ''he has missed a gear and so and so has slipped past him'' were as much a part of the on the edge of a seat enjoyment as a ''he's gone off, the pressure was too great and his erred''.

    The theme on this thread is for a desire to introduce a consequence of driver error, a visual immediate consequence. Audience engagement and participation is essential. Manual gear change, is one way. Truthfully, not being told which button to push was another. That classic when both Nico and Lewis had the same problem, Nico solved it long before Lewis. I don't think it matters what the driver error is so much but I think it matters to have a consequence for audience engagement and participation.
     
    #41
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  2. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    We could bring in Krypten Factor style puzzles for them to solve during the race for drivers to gain bonus time!

    Seriously, as well as the cars, the tracks need to be looked at too. It is too easy to make a mistake and have no real consequences, either from a time or damage point of view. Not saying we want cars to hammer into the walls all the time, but they really need to rethink the immediate run off areas around the outside of most tracks and remove/replace the large tarmac areas which just now act as wider parts of the track.
     
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  3. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    I think part of the problem is way too much knowledge. i.e. the drivers are very fit, mentally prepared, and they have the data to know when to brake, what diff setting, brake balance to use etc. So their job is mapped out almost a perfect procedure to follow. In days gone by the drivers all had to drive literally by the seat of their pants. They were thinking on the fly at every corner so they made mistakes and those who made less mistakes could capitalise even if they had a slower car.
    It's also the engineers and designers who have access to so much data and simulation they are fairly sure what they bring to track will give x result. So it's all so meticulously planned unless their is an issue the result is almost known at the start. Data is also enabling such high levels of reliability very few cars are failing to finish.
    They have 3D millimeter accurate maps of the tracks, they know what tarmac has been layed and how abrasive/grippy it was last year to name but a few bits of data they have.
    I am not saying driving is easy nor is th engineering behind the cars but with so much knowledge there are few errors.
    Just look at Merc, the only mistake was a miss calculation about heat and it was due to unexpectedly high temps in Austria.

    So maybe somehow we need to remove data sources or do some thing unpredictable like don't allow teams to choose tyres. Give the teams the same types but don't tell them the 'tread' depth maybe even never exactly the same compound. So they are all going out a little blind.

    Austria was a great race but what made it that? Was it due to unexpected high temps that suited some or was it the track (I don't think just track)?
     
    #43
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
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  4. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    Close this thread!

    All is well with F1
     
    #44
  5. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    *Laughs*
     
    #45
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  6. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    Until we return to a street circuit
     
    #46
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  7. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
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    I'll return with 'How to fix your comment'

    We are lucky at the moment that Red bull has caught up with Ferrari. But no one is with Mercedes still. Let's not turn a blind eye and accept what we have.

    So they have been discussing refueling. Is it better than tyre strategy? I'm not convinced as it will still be simulated with the result known before the race is run.
     
    #47
  8. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
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    ... although it would solve the car size problem..

    Really they should be moving more rapidly towards fuel efficiency And eventually renewable energy. In 20 years (or maybe/should be less) Diesel and Petrol engines will be outlawed in most European nations. The advancements of electric cars and the lowering cost that may see them very affordable in the next 5 years may bring that line down earlier. How will F1s road car manufacturers react to that. Alot of them have already pitched into Formula E.

    Formula E does have the action and much more overtaking across the whole board just lacks the promotion and Fan base of F1.

    Not a fix suggestion I know. Just rambling at 5 past midnight...
     
    #48
  9. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    I can't see it happening, there simply isn't enough lithium on the planet to do it, and lithium from batteries can't be recycled and re-used, so sooner or later all the EV's will have dead, unreplaceable batteries.
    At current production rates the estimate is 2050 before it is exhausted, but as they become more popular the production rate will increase and the date will be brought forward.
     
    #49
  10. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    shiny wet run-offs.
     
    #50
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  11. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
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    Yes. We need to surround Paul ricard with well rubbered drag strips and sprinklers then that track is fixed.
     
    #51
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  12. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    So with how this season is progressing, and the very real chance of Red Bull (read Verstappen) being able to challenge Mercedes next year. How much are we all looking forward to the complete rules rewrite in 2021 to mix up the field again? :(
     
    #52
  13. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    it will be a bit of a lottery again... The big problem is that if Merc come out of the gates first after the overhaul, we might as well put the sport down.
     
    #53
  14. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    The other teams would've caught up a lot sooner if it hadn't been for the stupid 'tokens' idea. I don't think they'll make the same mistake again.
     
    #54
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  15. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    Yep. Tokens was one of the daftest things ever dreamed up for F1. How Honda weathered the storm without the umbrella granted to others - and persevered to the point of becoming competitive (with such a gigantic handicap being written into the rules after they had committed) is a credit to the whole organisation - that they did not immediately walk away, knowing the world was watching, waiting to ridicule.

    I wish humble Honda huge success. And I hope no such exclusive and punitive system ever again raises a similarly ugly head.
     
    #55
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  16. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    I just hope the ground effect works appropriately. Needs to remove the dirty air but not make it too easy to drive as if on rails. The reasons for banning ground effect are presumably being addressed in the new design regulations. .
     
    #56
  17. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    The cars weren't that easy to drive. They had so much grip that drivers would struggle with the G-forces created. Also to make GE work properly the cars were very stiffly sprung, making them quite twitchy too.

    I can't see full GE coming back in with sliding skirts etc, so I wonder how much effect it will actually have, or what they can do to the cars to give better GE? Red Bull pioneered modern day GE with the steep rake set up, so really is it going to be an extension of that by removing the stipulation of flat bottom cars? The car packaging then becomes interesting as teams then have to consider the benefits of GE, when looking at presumably a higher centre of gravity to make space for the venture tunnels?
     
    #57
  18. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I remember the skirts and researched the issues that caused it to be banned. The skirts themselves, if damaged by going off could cause major issues. The G forces they say where not much greater than today but I assume today is the limit more or less for G force. Even some footage of back flips believed to have been caused by GE. Yes, the rake is a form of GE so it will have some impact on it. I assume the regulations may dictate the floor, in the way the wings are dictated today, so there is perhaps minimal innovation scope on the floor leaving the racing more to the performance of the engine and drivers.
    In theory it sounds interesting in practice Adrian Newey will be cleverer than most. Merc have a flatter rack that the RBs/many others who copy Newey so will be interesting if two different designs can perform equally well going forward.
    As no doubt every designer will say, there is always compromise.
     
    #58
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  19. Julius Caesar

    Julius Caesar Well-Known Member
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    I am. There's been a couple of good races on the trot, but there are still fundamental issues. Following is still too difficult and Sainz finished a lap and a half behind as best of the rest.

    I'm also not convinced by the common wisdom that regulation changes always spread out the field. Looking back at 2017, 2014, 2009, 2005 etc, the results are pretty mixed, often the field has ended up closer. Imagine how dull 2017 would have been without the changes.
     
    #59
  20. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    I just hope these changes are done right. F1 has a modern habit of making knee jerk decisions and the longer these rules get delayed the more I fear change for the sake of change.

    What they're saying is good, but F1 designers don't design their cars to the spirit of the rules, they design them to go fast. There is a monster gap from the top 3 to the midfield and there's no one fix for that. Even the much promised cost cap, look at other sports with stringent financial rules, you always have the top teams. They just have the greater pull and the efficiency of using resources.

    What ever is causing this current run of races needs to be properly looked at, bottled up and handed out copiously :)
     
    #60

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