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Hughes vs Hassenhuttl

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc), Apr 4, 2019.

  1. Ian Thumwood

    Ian Thumwood Well-Known Member

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    Pellegrino was clueless and it was staggering how long he lasted. I felt that he had inherited problems from Puel and cut him some slack to begin with but his ability to continue not to learn from his mistakes week in, week out, puts him on a par with Theresa May.

    I thought Steve Wigley was bad as well. Paul Sturrock never convinced me either but his stats are surpsingly good.

    I think Pellegrino was incompetent but I don't feel he engendered the same animosity as Ian Branfoot - surely the barometer for judging Saints' managers who were a bad fit for the club? I think Branfoot's manner was unfortunate and the style of football he promoted would have made you feel fond of Claude Puel! You can understand that Branfoot's Saints history might have put him in good stead with the directors and maybe they might have considered his long ball style of game typical of the era. It was a poor appointment but understandable. On the other hand, I cannot understand why Pellegrino got the job. I think Puel ticked a lot of boxes but ultimately frustrated and alienated a lot of fans. The next appointment should have been more considered. The directors obviously thought they could replicate the appointment of Poch but managed to get is spectacularly wrong and were extremely tardy in recognising their error,
     
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  2. thereisonlyoneno7

    thereisonlyoneno7 Well-Known Member

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    Agree with all of this
     
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  3. I Sorry I Ruined The Party

    I Sorry I Ruined The Party Well-Known Member

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    Maybe not manager of the year, but Puel was actually quite good. Sacking him was rather unjust. If the problem were really just Pellegrino, things should have changed after Hughes took over. But instead we got no better, and probably got a little worse.

    I don't really care about the atmosphere at SMS because I don't go to the games. But no one should ever hire or fire managers based on fan opinion because they are idiots. Everyone likes Hasenhuttl is a genius because if you extrapolate his results over a full season, we finish top half of the table. Except Puel actually did finish eighth (and a League Cup Final) and we sacked him. Everyone thinks Pellegrino is the worst manage we have ever had, despite the fact that Hughes was as bad or worse (and IMO neither guy was as bad Poortvliet).

    But anyway, again my point is not to defend Pellegrino or attack Puel. It's to point out that the club has/had problems in every aspect. We at least now have at decent manager, but if anyone thinks that is somehow enough then we are making the same mistake as when we had Puel and thought we could do better or when we had Pellegrino and thought Hughes would fix it, or when we barely stayed up through mostly luck and people thought Hughes was the answer and we'd just keep improving.

    There's a lot more to club success or failure than just good manager/bad manager but that's what supporters tend to focus on.
     
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  4. Saints_Alive

    Saints_Alive Well-Known Member

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    One thing I have always maintained is that I never blamed Pellegrino for taking the opportunity presented to him (Puel should never have been sacked after that one season and what he did here) as he was clearly a gamble on behalf of Les Reed who I suspect was trying to be clever in unearthing the next Poch, but Poch already had a reputation as a progressive coach, whereas Pellegrino was a relative novice.
    The sackings of Reed and Hunter and the appointment of Ralph are huge steps towards getting us back on the right path although it will take a bit of squad pruning before we get a better picture of the group that will will be moving forward with for the future.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  5. Beddy

    Beddy Plays the percentage

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    Sorry got argue with you here........no true fan is an idiot!!! They are the backbone of any club!! If the fans are not seeing what they paid for why shouldn’t they express their feelings? They might not be right all the time. Over time though they usually are not far wrong!!
     
    #65
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  6. I Sorry I Ruined The Party

    I Sorry I Ruined The Party Well-Known Member

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    Of course the fans get to express their feelings. It’s just that team executives shouldn’t listen too closely.

    Is the average person on the street better than any of us at our jobs? I hope not.

    These people are paid lots of money to make better decisions thanks supporters would. They should not only come into the job with better skills and experience, but once hired they have access to video, performance data, who is and us not available in the market, day to day interaction with the players or managers, etc.

    It’s not that they should ignore the fans, but what the supporters want is usually quite simple— always win, play exciting football, everything is free, the players are loyal and charismatic. It’s not their money paying people or their livelihood at stake. It’s your job to weigh the risks and rewards and be much, much better at it than the average person on the street. The supporters are all emotion, your job is to use logic.

    If you could do it all over again, would you have sacked Puel?
     
    #66
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  7. Beddy

    Beddy Plays the percentage

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    I certainly agree on some points you make. The fans usually don’t talk tactics. However the style we play does make a lot of difference to them. It’s not necessary winning or losing it’s how they win or lose which is important to the fan.
     
    #67
  8. Ian Thumwood

    Ian Thumwood Well-Known Member

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    The replacement of Puel by Pellegrino looked like a mistake and the former would have felt hard done by following his dismissal. My understanding was that it was the players and much as the supporters who weren't behind him. Pellegrino looked an exciting prospect when he was appointed but it quickly transpired he did not have the ability. In my opinion, both appointments were made with the right intentions but neither worked out. In some respects, Puel's failure at Leicester seems a vindication of our decision to sack him. He could get decent results but he could not do that by either keeping his squad and the supporters on side. No one really liked his style of football which was tedious to watch. If I am going to spend £600 on a season ticket, I want to be entertained.

    Hughes turned our fortunes around last season and it would have been harsh to have dismissed him. It would be interesting to read the fan reaction had a new manager been appointed in June last year and we experienced the same results as under Hughes. Would Sparky have been quite so dismissed in that instance?

    The problem with Saints is that appointments like Pellegrino seem to have been made when similar appointments have worked well or it there is a "good fit" such as Puel's reputation with bringing on youngsters. Sometimes appointments like Wigley, Gray and Merrington have been made by being loyal to club servants and have proved ill-judged afterwards. The best managers I think have been Adkins, Hoddle, Strachan, Koeman and Poch. Hassnehuttl has the potential to be in that class at the very least. McMemeny was easily the one manager who transformed our fortunes more than any other and his initial season was effectively sabotaged by Terry Paine before ending in disaster. As someone who started following Saints around 74/75, I feel he casts a long shadow over the team rather like Shankly at Liverpool. At the time, his appointment was controversial even before he got us relegated! Even transpired to be our best ever manager.

    I think you cannot always predict that a manger will be a success or that a particular appointment will be a "fit" that works. Poch's lack of English should have hampered Saints yet we produced some of our best ever football under his rule. The directors were appointing Pellegrino on the same logic. You could also argue that the appointment of Hughes mirrored similar managers like Strachan, Hoddle, Burley, Pardew and Redknapp who all had a previous pedigree albeit differing success. The Dutch pairing was spectacularly poor and maybe the best example of how bad things can go when appointments are so "off piste." Rupert really did not do his homework and I felt that it was a spectacular risk .
     
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  9. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    Idiots might be putting it a bit strong, but I long ago came to the conclusion that a large number of fans have no clue what they are watching. There’s still a bloke near me who spends most of every game slating Nathan Redmond, and while that bloke might be in the minority now, his was a widely held view until recently.

    There’s another bloke who shouts “Up the tempo Saints!” at random moments, like when the keeper is waiting for his defenders to reset themselves, and deciding who to play it out to. Then there’s the bloke who keeps shouting “Pressure, Saints” whenever the opposition start passing the ball in their own half. Actually, that last one’s me.

    Football fans are all mad, many don’t understand the game at all, and very few do understand it half as well as they think they do. This goes for fans of all clubs. Chairmen would be mad to listen to them, although the best managers (like Ralph) recognise the importance of having a rapport between the team and the supporters.
     
    #69
  10. fran-MLs little camera

    fran-MLs little camera Well-Known Member

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    There was a time when my favourite saying was 'Get rid of it' as Saints fannied around in their own goal area and seemed incapable of clearing the ball. Oh, the shame....luckily usually only yelled at the TV. :)

    Fans can sometimes be right, but generally think short term....someone has a couple of bad days, get rid of him. Equally a player scores a couple of goals and fans want to sign him...regardless of whether he fits our style or not. And fans can be unforgiving as well...hence the man moaning at Redmond....though I never get that as he always looked 'the man most likely to' even when the team was performing badly.
     
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  11. Beddy

    Beddy Plays the percentage

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    I certainly agree that some fans don’t have a clue about tactics or how a game needs to be played. It is true a manager needs report with both fans and players. I personally feel that is where a good director of football can do his best work.
     
    #71
  12. Velcro Roy

    Velcro Roy Well-Known Member

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    That last ones a loon,he even looks it now.<laugh>
     
    #72
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  13. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this, Ian, though I personally think RH is better than all those mentioned, bar Poch. I think he’s on a level with him.
     
    #73
  14. SAINTDON13

    SAINTDON13 Well-Known Member

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    The best thing about Hughes is that no one ever spelt his name wrong, there is only one 's' in Hasenhüttl
     
    #74
  15. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace
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    Only one umlaut as well! No one ever gave Hughes one of those!
     
    #75
  16. ihatemyselfandwanttodie

    ihatemyselfandwanttodie Well-Known Member

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    Well I though Hughes was a helmut so that’s close enough.
     
    #76
  17. RSS

    RSS Well-Known Member

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    Its a close one. They’re probably about as good as each other. Maybe Ralph slightly edges it.
     
    #77
  18. ----HistoryRepeating----

    ----HistoryRepeating---- Well-Known Member

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    Has the time finally come, where we won't see Fat Sam, Pards, Hughes, & Pulis back in the EPL?
    Or are there more twists to come?
    (yes I know Boro are in the hunt)
     
    #78
  19. Libby

    Libby 9-0

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    Some people wanted Sam :biggrin:
     
    #79
  20. ----HistoryRepeating----

    ----HistoryRepeating---- Well-Known Member

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    KFC rat.
    People say that happened, but never saw it myself........
     
    #80
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