Off Topic UK politics and brexit ramblings

In terms of extension, if it was put to the vote most of the MPs will go for a longer one. The ERG has obviously messed it up for May in coordinating the rejection of her deal but most of the commons don't want a no deal and that's what will happen if there is rejection of any extension.

May is the weakest and worst PM we could have had. Her unwillingness to budge is not a sign of strength but one of inflexibility and stubbornness. Keeping bringing the same deal to the commons and trying to wear people down is simply childish moronic stuff. This constant cry about fulfilling the wishes of the people is wearing thin as a new poll suggests that >60% of the electorate now want to remain. Let's say that this is not conclusive and the figure is more 80% of the electorate on a valid opinion poll saying they wish to remain. Do we still keep sticking to the mantra that we have to obey the will of the 2016 electorate and impose it on the 2019's? If (a big IF) the population truly wish to remain, are they doomed to now having to suffer the consequences of a vote taken 3 years ago and which they may really regret and wish to reverse? Anyone know why it is OK to thwart the (theoretical) will of the 2019 electorate but not that of the 2016 electorate ?

 

Theresa May has hinted she could be prepared to resign if she is faced with the prospect of a long delay to Brexit.

The prime minister has written to the European Union to ask for a three-month delay to Britain's departure, from 29 March to 30 June.

Brussels accepting such a request is not a foregone conclusion - and there have already been noises of disquiet from the bloc about the prospec
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brex...-long-brexit-delay/ar-BBV0ArL?ocid=spartandhp

 

Yep I can't argue with any of that. And completely agree with the fact May is just a mess. I think we're being railroaded into a fcking catastrophe.

But here's the problem with the EU saying we'll give you a longer extension on the condition it's for a 2nd referendum or a GE:

1) The likes of Farage and ERG do NOT want a long extension at any cost.
2) Farage and ERG will absolutely spin this and say "Finally, the EU plot to scupper Brexit is unveiled! This is proof they have no respect for the will of the people, who are they to say that the will of 17.4m doesn't count, they are still trying to control us, how dare they blackmail us... blah blah bollox bollox.
3) Public opinion which is largely stoopid when it comes to this sort of stuff will buy into the rhetoric and start frothing, any sensible folk will be drowned out and the remain vote will be dead before it's even begun.
4) Progressing with that option would destroy the Tory party which is a greater concern to Theresa May than what's best for the national interest, so she'll never do it anyway.

 

It is frankly a mess and a huge fialure nobody seems willing to admit.

a) day 1 of the vote and cameron ****ing off (the swine) and they chose May the tories decided to exclude all voiced but their own.

b) aslmost immediately the courts got involved with the primacy of parliament and the goverment lost that and the appeal too. which was their quandary.

c) the tories however knew they couldn't carry it with thier own party so they watch the polls and decided it was a great idea go for a bigger majority to **** the ERG cos of course a 50 seat majority would rule them out

d) they then had no majority at all and the DUP. they should at that point have thrown their hands up and said hung parliament and gone again but they were so desperate for power and fearful of corbyns little hurrah that they sold themselves to the DUP knowing full well they were lunatics

e) for 6 months they negotiated the back stop and payment and that was stage 1. the first thing agreed with EU. Immediately after agreeing that David Davies reneged on it after the backstop was said to be binding. He was in the commons denying it.

f) the self same gobshites negotiating the thing then all walked out of the deal leaving it half done.

g) may then concluded the negotiations with gov and put in the uk wide backstop to solve the DUPs problem... but didn't realise that they wanted what donald trump wants on thier border. A giant ****ing wall.

h) in december may knew this deal was shagged

i) in January it suffered a record defeat.

j) here we are in march trying to batter it through.

Now.... at what point would a sane person say hold on here and bring this back to the drawing board.

It went wrong over a year ago minimum... minimum. really it went wrong at outset. When the withdrawal act was passed it SHOULD have outlined precisely the guidelines and redlines in law so that all sides could see this is what we will bring back if we can.

the simple fact is theres no assurances now staring down the barrell of a "orderly disorderly" brexit that this lot won't **** themselves again.

My view now is the EU will grant May her 3 months but its sole use will be to have that preparations for a hardest of hard brexits. There will be unilateral "your laws are the same as our laws for a bit" and people will figure out means to keep airlines flying and trucks moving and the ERG will say all is well it was all fear mongering.

And once this starts all the companies who didn't want to waste millions and see a soft brexit/customs union type thing come about will realise oh **** i really do have to do what i wanted to avoid doing and then the jobs will start to go.

 

Between b) and just before c) May decides to enact Article 50 knowing full well that she was going to waste the following 3 months of a 2 year deadline on an unnecessary General Election. So why not wait on A50 until after the election

 

Next European match, you guys need to have huge banners at both the home and away legs that say. "F***Brexit!" Chant it out loud. Say "F*** to Brexit and Mrs May." Do it at your league games as well. And if you play Liverpool in the semis both sets of supporters should get together to say , "F*** the Tories and Mrs May etc"

 

In theory she could have said to the country

a) I need more time to not only do withdrawal but future deal

b) the mandate camermoron had wasn't enough.. now you want brexit.. give me 100 seat majority to go di it or no article 50 from me...

Imo they were watching not only the pools in thier favour but has pre-decided when 29th march 2019 was and how long they needed to stay in power after it to do a trade deal on her watch.

It was a huge assumption they were going to walk it and it was just timing.

IMO...

They were trying to push the eu as afar as the next eu parliament elections with the A50 timing. it could maybe have gone to may this year but even that was pushing it.

its all one giant assumption it'll all be fine and at every turn they stepped right in it.

at no point have they said ok... this hasn't worked we need to look after country now.

 

mancs and scouse singing together... would never happen

 

We're hated enough ffs, lets not make it worse!

 

My view is it all stems from triggering article 50 prior to establishing what sort of deal would be accepted by the HoC. Then to really ensure it was totally screwed ,as Treble just said, the dozy git calls a GE and manages to **** that up despite facing a totally split Labour Party led by someone almost all pundits think is unelectable as PM .
We are now all going to pay for her secretive stupidity which has been made worse by her duplicitous behaviour in HoC to the extent no one from any party trust her word to mean anything at all..

 

The worst thing is that in order for that hag to succeed, the other 649 have to be politically impotent. This is no different to Tony Blair leading up to the Iraq War vote. Everyone was moaning and bitching, but when it came to the crunch their balls disappeared so far into their gut they could've qualified for gender realignment. Right now, parliament is doing the same. When they had the chance to take control of Brexit they bottled it.

 

From Cameron's manifesto to the referendum to the election to the DUP bribe to the anti-parliament court case to the fake consensus talks, the Tories have consistently tried (and failed) to use #brexit to strengthen their own party at the expense of the country

 

It seems the Irish are now calling downing street press conferences and after they announced a short extension and may to inform us all we find that may will indeed speak from frowning street tonight at 8:15pm to say?

Yes you've guessed it eu will only grant extension to end of June if we agree my deal.

So may has contrived to ask eu in a way that bring the deal back to the third vote.

Thus it's accept deal or crash out now.

Makes parliaments non binding no to no deal an utterly pointless exercise.

And on we go until either Tories break or labour breaks or the country crashes out and thry blame each other.

 

agreed
there is the obvious irony though that in the process she has caused , hopefully lasting, damage to the Tories.

 

May has just betrayed the UK parliament to force through the EU's deal

I thought #brexit was about taking back control #sortyourstoryout

 

it's not the eu deal only you div.

it's not only mays deal either. thats the blame game.

this is a negotiated deal where the eu said. ok.. you owe us cash for projects here ok.. we negotiated the price.

they said what do you want. we didn't really say.

they said. this border stuff.... you've a peace process you've already ****ed over, if you try close that you will start a war. how will you keep.it open.

we've heard lots of our in sky ****e but to placate dup may has offered the UK wide option... so that's that.

and what have you after that.

 

I fcking hope so.

 

May can't get barely anyone to agree to the deal, not even the people she bribed with £1b, so it's hers IMO

It's also based on her red lines she invented on her own with zero input from parliament

 

It all comes back to her red lines. As insisting that we lost FoM & left the CU, ensured that whatever we did was going to collide with the GFA, hence the contorted position of the backstop, that we came up with.

We’re now at the point where she’s going to bribe the House with a choice of her deal or a supposedly definite no deal. Will they buckle? Not so sure. So then we’re left with a default no deal, or the EU giving us the extension anyway, as they won’t want to be seen as pushing us off the cliff edge imo.

Shocking behaviour from May, utterly contemptible.

 

Good ole Dominic G gave her both barrels in the commons today. Savage stuff but he was beeling tbf