The tories are insane. And when they talk about the EU & remainers being undemocratic, they are projecting.
No Donald, the Tories are trying to enact the result of the democratic Referendum vote.. the problem is that a majority of MP's (including the Speaker) want to ignore the Referendum and force us to remain in the EU! If the MP's win out and the Referendum is undemocratically ignored then there will be civic unrest.
The one that the DUP and the ERG shot down? And that's Remainer MP's. Stark paranoia! Try to bear in mind that the May deal (which a lot of brexiteers regard as a betrayal) would have gone through had Brexiteer MP's backed it. It's not correct to keep blaming remain for the inability of any Brexiteers to contrive the Brexit they want, and quite amusing that when the Bristish parliament block it, they blame 'bullying EU'. but at the end of the day, threatening civic unrest is the thin end of the wedge that leads to Christchurch and Jo Cox - loopy right wingers who shoot people they disagree with. I dunno if that's a threat to let push through whatever sort of Brexit to satisfy everyone (clearly not possible) but this sort of provocative rage from Brexit needs to go.
After the referendum result, it was the Government's job to implement the UK's exit from the EU. Back in 2016 there was no mention that Parliament could overturn the referendum result if it so wished. Had there been, I would not have bothered to vote or pay any attention at all to the result. Parliament bullied the Government into giving it the final say on the Brexit deal. Now Parliament has rejected the deal (twice), rejected 'no deal' and effectively made the referendum result null and void. Parliament is to blame for the situation the Country is now in. Even 'remain' voters of good conscience can surely see that getting what they want in this manner is no victory. There are no winners. Democracy and moderation are the losers - not just now, but permanently. Now we enter a new age of extremism. The ballot box no longer serves us.
I am not threatening civil unrest Ken. What I am saying is that if Parliament ignores the results of the Referendum then civil unrest is almost inevitable. Think of what would have happened in Scotland if they had voted for Independence and then the UK/Scottish Parliaments had made that so difficult that they remained in the UK against their will... there would be mass unrest in Scotland, I just think the same would happen oop North if the Referendum were ignored.
From both a personal & a professional perspective I can tell you that the main driver for the huge Leave vote was a wish to end mass EU immigration. The anger will be visceral if the voter’s wish to end mass EU immigration does not end. @baraettmattesvensson is not a political animal as we know (he’s just an animal) but he and I were agreeing recently on the way our home area has been totally changed - destroyed in many ways - by mass EU immigration. We are putting huge strains on social cohesion as well as public services. I am not interested in the twee anecdote about the nice Polish cleaner in the hospital when I see Eastern European’s beggars everywhere in my local town centre.
I was on the winning side in the EU Referendum, and I am confident that my democratic wish will be upheld. I hear rumours that @DonCorleone has a penchant for Latvian sex workers ?
I was told that @DonCorleone 's understairs maid was forced to dress in traditional Latvian attire while carrying out her duties … I think it was Elf who told me so it must be the truth
Okay, genuine question, and keeping the tone civil as it generally has been. I didn't even get a vote (i'd have voted remain, and I would guess a lot of ex pats who were similarly denied their democratic right would also have done, as we are the equivalent of the Latvian sex workers and Polish cleaners previously quoted - remember that thing about immigration works both ways, and a lot of us are living abroad thanks to the EU - do you want the like sof us coming back to sponge on your scanty welfare state? Anyway, I digress. Lardi especially has been most emphatic about parliament should have done this by now, and not doing so is a breach of democracy. Disagree strongly, but the problem is that saying this is merely a whinge. What Brexit do you want? There's an MP who was on twitter today who's constituents voted 60% leave. They have been writing to him en masse demanding their personal version of Brexit, and they all want different things. The only thing they can agree on is the word Brexit. Blame Cameron for not being more explicit, blame Farage for shouting so much and actually doing nothing to facilitate this. Blame May for stubbornly refusing to try and get a broad consensus on what form it should take. Or Johnson and Gove for moronically saying it would all be easy, when it was so clearly the opposite. But to blame parliament that it hasn't happened is a fairly odd stance, suggesting all the recent debates were of no importance. So come on, can all the Leavers on here agree at least what they wish to see. No deal (and no trade), Norway deal, may's deal,. And the Irish border. How many want to put their hands up and vote to bring back the troubles?
The electorate was given a binary choice to a complex issue, all the problems stem from that. Dodgy Dave was so confident of winning that he didn't consider what to do if the vote went against his recommendation. The Norway option would reflect the 52/48% split in the vote. The Norwegians seem quite happy with it, but the whole business has been going on for so long now that people have become increasingly entrenched in their opinions, so that compromise will make hardly anyone happy. I really don't like the threats of violence I am hearing more and more from no-dealers, and hope that the more moderate brexiters will condemn it.
The EU don't seem too keen to grant a delay without solid reason. Odds must be shortening on no-deal. What was the point in Parliament voting against no-deal? It will happen anyway if MP's keep on voting against everything. I don't blame the MP's, many of whom have much more honorable motives than they are given credit for, but there has been a lack of leadership in both parties. If no-deal does go through there will be huge celebrations by some, but I fear that there is more dirt to come on the Vote Leave campaign. which has been fined again today for breaking electoral rules.
Who could today's Daily Mail be referring to when they talk about "Hard Brexit Zealots"? Paul Dacre perhaps?
