Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Southampton

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Spurlock said:
Are you saying these players are good enough to win the big 2 but it's a mental problem?
Click to expand...

I am saying the manager and squad are good enough to beat
Burnley and Soton, and not to be so fragile against a Chelsky
team that had faced Citeh in a long cup final.

Are you saying that they are so mentally weak not to be able
to do what was necessary in the above games ??
 
The RDBD said:
I am saying the manager and squad are good enough to beat
Burnley and Soton, and not to be so fragile against a Chelsky
team that had faced Citeh in a long cup final.

Are you saying that they are so mentally weak not to be able
to do what was necessary in the above games ??
Click to expand...

No, I agree they should beat them teams and should be savvy enough however they are not. Maybe Poch realises this...but he's cutting a frustrated figure because he knows he won't get the backing.

I think Levy is risking losing Poch and if/when he leaves I betcha the lack of ambition from the owner will be a main factor and comforting thought for Poch. A stadium can't play CM for us...that's the bottom line of it.

Poch is just being thoroughly professional but it seems like Levy in true Levy style is seeing how much he can test that patience.
 
remembercolinlee said:
To blame fans is weird.
I go to games to have a good time with my girls and mates and hopefully see us win.
I will not boo or jeer and do not rant like those Arsenal TV nutters or the man utd fan on the prem board.
The idea that we are in any way to blame is absurd.
I get I am very cautious compared to others...I bet Bolton, Coventry, Notts County and Ipswich fans had wished their owners had behaved responsibly instead of taking mad gambles.
This week all 4 have been in the news for serious financial difficulties.
I have done the list several times.
Leeds, Sheffield United, Bolton, Wednesday, Charlton, Villa, Wimbledon, Coventry, Barnsley, Portsmouth, Wigan, Nottingham Forest, Middlesborough, Ipswich, Notts County, Swindon, Bradford, Sunderland, Blackpool, Luton, Southampton, Leicester, Norwich, West Brom, Derby, Birmingham, Hull, Swansea, Palace, Stoke, Blackburn QPR and Reading.

Only Luton and Notts County were not in the premier league out of the 32 clubs listed.
Only Palace, Leicester and Southampton recovered and all three only spend what they can afford.

Leeds and Wednesday have taken over 20 years to nearly recover...both were far better than us at the time.

All but Sheffield United , Bradford, Barnsley, Swindon, Blackpool and Notts County were not Premier league regulars.

The club decided that the players that were affordable (transfer and wages wise) were not good enough...rightly or wrongly and were not prepared to spend what they could not afford.

I support spending what we can afford as I would like to continue having a team to support into my old age.

It's cool to disagree with my view but pointlessly irrelevant to blame people like me for the fact we have not won a title or a trophy.
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The one thing I'd say to somewhat counter this mate is that money in football is at unprecedented levels now, especially for a club like us despite the fact we're still miles behind the other top five financially.

£90m a season as a standard payment for Prem TV rights and that'll only continue to rise once that deal has expired and a new one is sought. We've received roughly £40m a season from CL money. Sponsorships now bring in insane amounts (and as far as I'm aware, the new stadium naming rights will bring in a massive windfall). Merchandise sales no doubt bring in healthy amounts too. Of course, the stadium repayments need to be taken into account along with many other costs but that's something I'm sure Levy has well under control.

We're not a side who say if we spent £50m would then have to look over our shoulder and panic. I'm not saying we can spend £500m in a window and not worry but there's definitely scope for the club to spend without the possibility of doing a Leeds/ Blackpool etc.

Realistically, it would take for Spurs to be relegated for us to really, really worry about the future of the club and while I never take anything for granted, I can't see that happening any time soon.
 
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Spurlock said:
No, I agree they should beat them teams and should be savvy enough however they are not. Maybe Poch realises this...but he's cutting a frustrated figure because he knows he won't get the backing.

I think Levy is risking losing Poch and if/when he leaves I betcha the lack of ambition from the owner will be a main factor and comforting thought for Poch. A stadium can't play CM for us...that's the bottom line of it.

Poch is just being thoroughly professional but it seems like Levy in true Levy style is seeing how much he can test that patience.
Click to expand...

Problem is mate you seem to be putting all of the blame on Levy. I've mentioned before, Poch was the one who vetoed a number of moves.

Levy isn't perfect by any means but the notion he's not backing Poch, or not willing to back Poch, is unfair. He may not be telling Poch we can sign ten £50m players but I highly doubt Levy has said there's zero to spend on signings these past couple windows.

Poch is as much to blame. I think he's been overly cautious with who he wanted but that approach has proven costly. Let's not forget that before this poor run of form, Poch was literally saying how everyone needed to show some faith and belief in the squad because things were going well. Now we've hit a bad patch, suddenly the squad is arrogant and lacking mentality etc... He's changed his tune massively within the space of about 4-5 weeks.
 
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Dier Hard said:
Problem is mate you seem to be putting all of the blame on Levy. I've mentioned before, Poch was the one who vetoed a number of moves.

Levy isn't perfect by any means but the notion he's not backing Poch, or not willing to back Poch, is unfair. He may not be telling Poch we can sign ten £50m players but I highly doubt Levy has said there's zero to spend on signings these past couple windows.

Poch is as much to blame. I think he's been overly cautious with who he wanted but that approach has proven costly. Let's not forget that before this poor run of form, Poch was literally saying how everyone needed to show some faith and belief in the squad because things were going well. Now we've hit a bad patch, suddenly the squad is arrogant and lacking mentality etc... He's changed his tune massively within the space of about 4-5 weeks.
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The players have shown signs of thinking that the CL is the only important thing recently. Particularly against Burnley and in the second half against Southampton.
It doesn't sound like Poch was expecting that. It is important that what he says in public is consistent with what he tells them in private.
 
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Dier Hard said:
Problem is mate you seem to be putting all of the blame on Levy. I've mentioned before, Poch was the one who vetoed a number of moves.

Levy isn't perfect by any means but the notion he's not backing Poch, or not willing to back Poch, is unfair. He may not be telling Poch we can sign ten £50m players but I highly doubt Levy has said there's zero to spend on signings these past couple windows.

Poch is as much to blame. I think he's been overly cautious with who he wanted but that approach has proven costly. Let's not forget that before this poor run of form, Poch was literally saying how everyone needed to show some faith and belief in the squad because things were going well. Now we've hit a bad patch, suddenly the squad is arrogant and lacking mentality etc... He's changed his tune massively within the space of about 4-5 weeks.
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I think the reality is probably somewhere in-between what we both think.

Yeah you're right Poch has changed his tune...the pressure of the reality is telling...even the collective narrative will only cut it so long I suppose. Imagine being the man who's being expected to pull rabbits out of the hat whilst realising the limits of your squad.
 
Spurlock said:
I think the reality is probably somewhere in-between what we both think.

Yeah you're right Poch has changed his tune...the pressure of the reality is telling...even the collective narrative will only cut it so long I suppose. Imagine being the man who's being expected to pull rabbits out of the hat whilst realising the limits of your squad.
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Yeah no doubt, I think all are equally to blame. Our players lack the mentality, our manager lacks the tactical nous as well as squad management at times and our chairmen for as brilliant as he is financially, doesn’t always look at things with a footballing brain.
 
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Dier Hard said:
The one thing I'd say to somewhat counter this mate is that money in football is at unprecedented levels now, especially for a club like us despite the fact we're still miles behind the other top five financially.

£90m a season as a standard payment for Prem TV rights and that'll only continue to rise once that deal has expired and a new one is sought. We've received roughly £40m a season from CL money. Sponsorships now bring in insane amounts (and as far as I'm aware, the new stadium naming rights will bring in a massive windfall). Merchandise sales no doubt bring in healthy amounts too. Of course, the stadium repayments need to be taken into account along with many other costs but that's something I'm sure Levy has well under control.

We're not a side who say if we spent £50m would then have to look over our shoulder and panic. I'm not saying we can spend £500m in a window and not worry but there's definitely scope for the club to spend without the possibility of doing a Leeds/ Blackpool etc.

Realistically, it would take for Spurs to be relegated for us to really, really worry about the future of the club and while I never take anything for granted, I can't see that happening any time soon.
Click to expand...
I think that there is a possibility of T V money going down not up. More and more people no longer want to pay the exhorbitant sums Sky and BT are charging and so the TV companies will not be able to keep paying more with each contract renewal. Our stadium will pay for itself far quicker than any others recently completed because of the removable pitch allowing far more non-football events to take place place. Afall in football related income will affect other clubs far more than uh
 
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Dier Hard said:
Dave and Foyth long term are potentially a formidable partnership but both aren’t at the level of Jan and Toby, Dave isn’t too far away, though Foyth needs to grow a lot more, he’s great with the ball but very naive defensively.

I defended Tripps last season because he was really good. This season however he’s been an utter liability and there are now too many emerging RBs that are already better. Aurier can just go back to Paris for all I care.

LB is only a slight concern but a concern nonetheless. Davies is a great backup and was superb last season but hasn’t replicated that form, though the real problem lies with Rose in that he is too unreliable with his fitness, if that remains, we need to seek a more reliable option.

Winks is nowhere near a first XI calibre midfielder, a squad option at best, the water carrier is often what he’s labelled with yet a top four side doesn’t need a water carrier, it needs someone who’ll throw the water up field to keep the attackers fresh. Skipp is still miles away from asserting himself in the squad, a great talent but that’s all he is for the moment. Grealish may not be the best around but he’d fit the style of midfielder we need far more than Winks and Skipp. He’s a creative force that only thinks about driving forward, he’s Dembele-lite so to speak.

Dier is miles better than Milivojevic. Though I’d have no beef if he joined as we can do with some reliable backup, replacing Wanyama

Isco for Eriksen is the best deal we can get if we can’t convince Eriksen to stay which seems likely.
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You're a big fan of Dier's that is news to no-one. I personally don't rate him as a top 4 player and neither, it would seem, does Poch who upgraded him with Wanyama the minute we broke into the top 4 despite the integral part Dier played in his first 2 seasons and the fact that at his age he was likely to get better year on year.

I've watched Palace a fair few times this season and Luka has stood out for his leadership qualities and never say die attitude. He was bang-average when he first joined but has quietly been improving year on year under Woy and is now probably the second name on the team sheet after Zaha.

As for Winks, I admit the jury is still out on him. I think he has been chronically over used this season - recent niggling injuries are indicators of this. But I would like to see him paired with a top notch DM for a stretch of games before passing judgement. I think that would unshackle him to try the more adventurous play people are shouting for.

At the same time I do get what you're saying about Grealish. He does play with the sort of flair and positivity that can't really be coached or learned. It's a personality more than anything. I've also been impressed with his attitude this season. He was denied a big big move in the summer but pulled his socks up (no pun intended) and just got on with it. He didn't let the assault today get to him and that is the mark of a player who is both focused and mature.
 
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A while back somebody mentioned that the lack of a DMF is causing problems for both Sanchez and Foyth this season, as it leaves them more likely to be exposed. However, there's another side to this coin: it's also causing problems for any midfielders we try and bring through, as Skipp getting overrun by Leicester a few weeks ago demonstrates, and there's been several occasions the same can be said for Winks. If they had a Parker or a Sandro alongside them this wouldn't be an issue, as they'd do the hard stuff and let them play their game, but the issue is they have to modify their game to compensate for the lack of a DMF so not only does this lessen their potential contribution as they're having to wear several hats at once, it makes things a little easier for the opposition too.
 
I've read for years that Spurs fans are among the worse. Why? Because we seem to know a bit more than other fans when it comes to watching some of our past and present teams going through the motions?...….and telling them about it!
I keep disagreeing with our manager's attitude when it come to some cup games and not bothering about them. I think this get's stuck in our players minds and that can mess with them. Every game should be important! Not making one in three holiday. After Saturday it looks like 3 games out of four have been a holiday (with pay!)
 
C. Kane said:
You're a big fan of Dier's that is news to no-one. I personally don't rate him as a top 4 player and neither, it would seem, does Poch who upgraded him with Wanyama the minute we broke into the top 4 despite the integral part Dier played in his first 2 seasons and the fact that at his age he was likely to get better year on year.

I've watched Palace a fair few times this season and Luka has stood out for his leadership qualities and never say die attitude. He was bang-average when he first joined but has quietly been improving year on year under Woy and is now probably the second name on the team sheet after Zaha.

As for Winks, I admit the jury is still out on him. I think he has been chronically over used this season - recent niggling injuries are indicators of this. But I would like to see him paired with a top notch DM for a stretch of games before passing judgement. I think that would unshackle him to try the more adventurous play people are shouting for.

At the same time I do get what you're saying about Grealish. He does play with the sort of flair and positivity that can't really be coached or learned. It's a personality more than anything. I've also been impressed with his attitude this season. He was denied a big big move in the summer but pulled his socks up (no pun intended) and just got on with it. He didn't let the assault today get to him and that is the mark of a player who is both focused and mature.
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Dier ended up forming a formidable back three with Toby and Jan in what was probably our best ever premier league side. In each year he’s often been an ever-present, whether that be DM, CB or the occasional RB. His versatility has been priceless for this side, genuinely doubt we’d have done as well as we have without him in the years he’s been here.

As for Milivojevic, as I said, no problem if we were to bring him in but I’d lay money he wouldn’t get in above a fully fit Dier.

I don’t think Winks will ever be what we want him to be, he’s not adventurous enough with his style. Ironically he’d have been ideal to have brought on over the weekend to help retain possession and slow the game down to stop Saints’ momentum, but as a starting XI player, never for me. Great lad, average baller.

I mentioned back in the summer when RCL questioned his attitude that Jack has matured a lot from the days of passing out in the middle of the street. He’s by far the best player in the championship now and, in my opinion, perfectly suited to what Poch wants from a player in his position - stylish and technical yet also hard working.
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
A while back somebody mentioned that the lack of a DMF is causing problems for both Sanchez and Foyth this season, as it leaves them more likely to be exposed. However, there's another side to this coin: it's also causing problems for any midfielders we try and bring through, as Skipp getting overrun by Leicester a few weeks ago demonstrates, and there's been several occasions the same can be said for Winks. If they had a Parker or a Sandro alongside them this wouldn't be an issue, as they'd do the hard stuff and let them play their game, but the issue is they have to modify their game to compensate for the lack of a DMF so not only does this lessen their potential contribution as they're having to wear several hats at once, it makes things a little easier for the opposition too.
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Totally agree with this and have made this point myself since rejoining. Dave and Foyth have had more jittery moments this season despite being more experienced because of general lack of protection. It is also a massive, massive problem that i have lost count of the amount of times I've seen Winks perform the Wanyama/Dier role of dropping into a CB when the FB's push upfield and Toby and Jan split to wider positions. As supposedly our most creative midfielder (let's be honest he currently is), seeing that happen so frequently is deeply worrying and is only happening because we lack a proper DM.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
3/11? Walker-Peters goes months without games and doesn't play for the U23s, for some reason.
Where were Alderweireld and Aurier? Why has Kane started every game and played every minute after being out for months?

Pochettino's decision making has been awful over the last run of games, barring those against Dortmund.
He's rushing players back, completely leaving out fit ones and then over-using those that have just returned.
Kane and Alli totally disappeared in that second half and he subbed off Moura, who had done well and was fresh.
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I was surprised he subbed off Moura too, he was causing us all sorts of problems. Saying that, I was surprised when Alli went off; he didn’t look tired to me. I was relieved when he went off. He might have been less effective in the second half, but that was probably because we actually started competing for the ball after HT.
 
Drastically changing a winning side that was grinding results has cost us. Is it a coincidence that we started losing since Kane came back? Sure, he has scored in every game but the team itself looks lost in the wilderness. Sonny may as well be playing for S Korea in yet another tournament, so absent has he become.
 
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